[RPM] Unlimited Voluntary Sacrifices

[Snaps]

So I never noticed this before, and maybe I'm wrong (often am). But I don't see any limit on how many people can willingly offer their energy to a Ritual Path Mage.

The only limit I see is that the mage can only tap into one sacrifice per Concentrate maneuver. It doesn't even require a skill roll. So the mage could have a hundred, or even a thousand people waiting in line, each come up to him when it's their turn offers up say 9 fatigue, and pretty soon the mage has a few hundred, or few thousand energy to work with.

Seems like this opens up quite a few possibilities, or have I missed something?

[Kalzazz]

Thats the way I've read it, fill an entire Football stadium and go to town!

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Snaps

So I never noticed this before, and maybe I'm wrong (often am). But I don't see any limit on how many people can willingly offer their energy to a Ritual Path Mage.

The only limit I see is that the mage can only tap into one sacrifice per Concentrate maneuver. It doesn't even require a skill roll. So the mage could have a hundred, or even a thousand people waiting in line, each come up to him when it's their turn offers up say 9 fatigue, and pretty soon the mage has a few hundred, or few thousand energy to work with.

Seems like this opens up quite a few possibilities, or have I missed something?

A couple of things:

• It hurts - even if it's FP you're sacrificing. -1 per FP or HP spent (up to -4). In real world terms it's like getting a knife to the gut or suffering a wound that requires stitches. Keep in mind that magic won't restore HP or FP lost this way. Finding volunteers for that on a regular bases is going to be difficult at best.
• They have to know what they are doing and what it entails. So you can't say "Just trust me" and tap their FP/HP. They have to know what's going on. You can use coercion or blackmail to make someone willing however.
• Tapping into a source takes one second for Adepts and 1 minute for non-adepts (who can use the adept times, though this requires a skill roll at -5)

So yeah, if you have the time, people who are willing (or coerced) and ready to suffer the pain the equivalent of being stabbed with a knife in the gut (-3 in shock penalties from 3 FP - the same amount of damage an impaling weapon does when targeting the Vitals at minimum damage) or take actual HP loss (at least 2 HP per 1 point of energy) then yeah, sure, go ahead.

People tend to look at RPM as a numbers game and that's never been how it's meant to work. Some magic systems are in a vacuum. The rules say they work one specific way and that's how they work. RPM requires a GM to adjudicate or it can get wonky. Just because the numbers say you can do something doesn't mean the GM is going to let you. Or even the campaign world. Some things might just be out and out impossible in a given setting.

[Kalzazz]

Wheres it say you can't heal it by magic? That is a HUGE departure from how I imagined it working and how I've worked it, not quite Earth shattering, but whoa

Pg 21 of RPM (where voluntary sacrifice is discussed) doesn't say anything about not being able to heal it by magic that I can tell

On Pg 8 of Magic (for using HP to cast spells), it says "Treat HP lost this way just like any other injury" and doesn't say anything about not using Magic to heal it either

Don't see that mentioned on pg 36 of MH1 either

[Kalzazz]

That said, what is so wrong with stadiums full of people casting spells? I love the idea. I've loved it ever since Technomancer mentioned mages competing to be the one to cast the Weather Dome for the Superbowl, leading the crowd in a ceremonial casting

So any system that encourages people to try to get a stadium full of people together to cast a spell is a good one from my point of view

Trying to actually manage the logistics and headache of getting an entire stadium full of people together I think is far and away enough of a headache to keep it from getting unbalanced, especially if you also steal the rule from Magic where 1 person opposed to the spell cancels out X many supporting it!

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

Wheres it say you can't heal it by magic? That is a HUGE departure from how I imagined it working and how I've worked it, not quite Earth shattering, but whoa

Pg 21 of RPM (where voluntary sacrifice is discussed) doesn't say anything about not being able to heal it by magic that I can tell

On Pg 8 of Magic (for using HP to cast spells), it says "Treat HP lost this way just like any other injury" and doesn't say anything about not using Magic to heal it either

Don't see that mentioned on pg 36 of MH1 either

It's a consequence of Rule 3 for Stacking Spells. You can't use magic to be better at using magic. Logically, if you cannot sacrifice FP or HP granted by a ritual to power another ritual then the inverse also applies. You cannot heal FP or HP lost in that way. That's how I've read from day one when I was playtesting Monster Hunters.

[Kalzazz]

That is not how I read it at all

Man . . . this requires redoing almost all my bloody freaking painstakingly created spells if this is true, since most of the time I assumed I could kick in a few FP no harm no foul to round the spell off (sure, creating spells is trivial, but its still bloody annoying)

Man, you really should get a lot better return on FP and especially HP if you can't heal them afterwards to my way of thinking

Curses! Emphatically curses!

[Flyndaran]

It only takes 10 minutes for anyone to regain a Fatigue point. When would that matter?
Not allowing magic to affect magic sounds dangerously close to conservation of matter and energy. Since when does magic care about modern physics? I ask only half jokingly.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

That said, what is so wrong with stadiums full of people casting spells? I love the idea. I've loved it ever since Technomancer mentioned mages competing to be the one to cast the Weather Dome for the Superbowl, leading the crowd in a ceremonial casting

So any system that encourages people to try to get a stadium full of people together to cast a spell is a good one from my point of view

Trying to actually manage the logistics and headache of getting an entire stadium full of people together I think is far and away enough of a headache to keep it from getting unbalanced, especially if you also steal the rule from Magic where 1 person opposed to the spell cancels out X many supporting it!

I don't have an issue with it really, just know that you're asking people to cause themselves great pain. I don't see that happening in a society for long or often unless it's ruled by a despot. I mean, have you ever been stabbed before? I have, on multiple occasions (hazard of ye olde profession). I had a Phillips Head screwdriver shoved through my right shoulder and a switchblade missed my internal organs by about half an inch. I have an incredible pain tolerance, but I was crying like a baby on the first and the second caused so much pain I paused out. That's what you're going to be asking people to do. There will be dissent unless an incentive is provided of some kind. Again, not a numbers game. That's the price of a subjective magic system vs. a objective one.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

That is not how I read it at all

Man . . . this requires redoing almost all my bloody freaking painstakingly created spells if this is true, since most of the time I assumed I could kick in a few FP no harm no foul to round the spell off (sure, creating spells is trivial, but its still bloody annoying)

Man, you really should get a lot better return on FP and especially HP if you can't heal them afterwards to my way of thinking

Curses! Emphatically curses!

Sacrifice is not an ideal way to cast spells - it never has been. It's a method of last resort.