Fantasy question

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by fredo01

How often do you use active gods in your fantasy settings? Do you like when GMs use active deities in their fantasy campaigns? Would fantasy be better with or without them?

My fantasy setting is absolutely lousy with gods, and dealing with them all the time is a significant though routine nuisance. Before peasants harvest a field of rice they have to anaesthetise the god of the field with bhang or opium, before a fisherman sets out for a night's fishing he has to sacrifice to his boat and the relevant body of water. Gods are all over the place: worse than rats.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

I have a slight personal bias that creeps in here. Gods in my settings tend to exist in the minds of their followers, period. That said, I've gone the other way a few times, but only in fantasy settings.

[demonsbane]

Originally Posted by fredo01

I am sorry if I havent been clear enough. By active, I mean gods who plot, take action through humans or avatars,grant their followers powers or rain destruction upon those who they feel need to be punished, as opposed to gods who dont exist at all or simply cant interfere with mortals.

For my traditional and mythological feel, I use Power Investiture, Holiness, Holy Might, Magery, Blessed, Unholy Power... as diverse forms of the active presence of gods in the world throught some human beings.

But that doesn't exclude the participation of the same gods in the cosmos, relating between themselves and or acting in their own superior orders, following consecuences in the earth too due to the analogic relations between the universal and the particular domain.

The ocasional disguised or explicit manifestation of gods as avatars can be interesting, too, if they are handled with some care and meaning.

They can be manifested in the world throught supernatural forms, too.

In my current campaign, gods do plot actively and some PCs are gods but they don't know it, posing as "normal" people.

The idea is the world of gods and the world of humans not being completely separate one from the other, because despite being different orders or regions they are parts of a single reality (in other words, different regions disposed in a jerarquical way, all them pertaining to a greater and shared world or cosmos; see Basic Set Campaigns, World Within Worlds, p. 521). Thus, double way interaction is possible.

On the other hand, the very existence of monsters (see 4e Fantasy, p. 49) could be proof of the gods acting upon the world.

[fredo01]

Thanks to everyone that answered my question so far. You have been very helpful. I hope to get as many opinions as I can get.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by fredo01

How often do you use active gods in your fantasy settings? Do you like when GMs use active deities in their fantasy campaigns? Would fantasy be better with or without them?

Last question first: IMO the quality of a fantasy setting or game is not affected by the existence or non existence of active, interfering deities. The answer to the second question is much the same - it's not really a factor in my enjoyment of a game.

Now for the first question: Generally I do. My current campaign has gods that are active. The major gods restrict themselves to intervention via priests and other agents that have been lent power in exchange for their service. These gods have worldwide reach, very wide portfolios, and vast power. Much of their personal power is not dependant on the worship of mortals, and none of them rely on worship for survival. All but one have origins that pre-date the appearance of mortals, and the single exception is the only known major god to be a mortal who achieved apotheosis.

The more minor, local, deities, directly intervene in events that occur within their sphere of interest and power. These gods as a rule have limited geographical reach and much less power than the greater gods, and tend to be mortals and nature spirits that have figured out how to draw power from the worship of mortals. Most of their power if derived from this worship, many rely on it for their ongoing existence, and all rely on it for their divine status.

Edit: I forgot to mention that the gods, both minor and (especially) major, are very prone to talk to PCs and other significant people, offering them things in exchange for their services, worship, and so on.

[TGryph]

Never to any of the questions. Heck, my group is not even sure the gods exist, despite the fervor of the more religious-minded NPC's they meet. I prefer it that way, sort of like the real world. Those that believe can see miracles in just about everything...those that don't can explain the same miracles in more mundane terms. Most folks give the gods some sort of worship and respect, but that is more due to tradition that actual physical evidence.

TGryph

[demonsbane]

Originally Posted by Rupert

The more minor, local, deities, directly intervene in events that occur within their sphere of interest and power. These gods as a rule have limited geographical reach and much less power than the greater gods, and tend to be mortals and nature spirits that have figured out how to draw power from the worship of mortals.

Ah, you are raising here a point I forgot to mention: traditionally and within a mythologic approach, not all the supernatural needs to be about gods in Fantasy. A slightly more accesible host of intermediate beings, daemons or "spirits" (subtle psychic beings) -inhabiting the cosmic regions between humans and gods, the "Astral" or psychic world- typically have a great role too, acting several times as non-human intermediaries between gods and men and men and gods, and sometimes they can even pose truly or falsely as representations of some particular gods or spiritual essences.

Originally Posted by TGryph

Never to any of the questions. Heck, my group is not even sure the gods exist, despite the fervor of the more religious-minded NPC's they meet. I prefer it that way, sort of like the real world. (...)
TGryph

In my campaign featuring gods, the PCs or NPCs don't have to know nothing true or definitive about the gods. Indeed, it is common they share false beliefs about the reality.

Usually, I leave them in the most dark ignorance... That is good for Fantasy Mysteries.

Also can be meaninful to keep in mind: the verified existence or inexistence of gods doesn't clears by itself everything in the world.

The block of text about the gods and how they do interact is mainly a sort of campaign setup, background information for the GM eyes only.

All remains as a mystery, as it is usual even in real world cultures where gods and spirits are regarded as real.

And again, as in real world non-modern assumptions, some supernatural gift, barakah, blessing or Power Investiture is required for attaining personal and first hand knowledge of (and/or interaction with) the supernatural domain in a regular basis and with certain degree of success. That was (and in some scarce cases, still is) the role and benefit of the mystery "cults".

[Dustin]

My current Alexander the Great campaign has fairly active gods. They normally grant spells and powers to their worshipers, but sometimes intercede more directly, showing signs and portents.

Most recently, the priests of Osiris and Anubis at Siwa summoned a daughter of Ammut to help deliver them from an invasion of undead (the lost army of Cambyses, arriving at Siwa 200 years after they set forth).

[Frost]

I have never realy seen the need to have gods comunicate or interact with PC's. Based on other peoples campaigns I think it is something of a game breaker because unless you are playing with jumped up spirits (not unlike discworld small gods, sjard's totem spirits or any other weakly godlike entity you care to mention) dumping a god on the scene takes the focus and the initive away from the player characters.

Ok so that isn't always a bad thing but there is no real need to do it so blatently. As a result of this full bore gods in my campaigns tend to be rare (most of my religions are monotheistic or dualistic) and baring incidents from distant mythological ages are fealt rather than seen, heard or otherwise interacted with. Possibly the only exception to this is Goblins (yes I actualy tried to run it) where I did tend to make regular use of Goblin Luck i.e. devine favour as determined by god's reaction to the character per a standard reaction roll.

[demonsbane]

Originally Posted by Frost

I have never realy seen the need to have gods comunicate or interact with PC's.

They can be useful for adding a cosmic dimension to the story or to the setting.

Originally Posted by Frost

Based on other peoples campaigns I think it is something of a game breaker (...) dumping a god on the scene takes the focus and the initive away from the player characters.

Let me add a nuance: manifested gods don't need to share nor to fight against the PCs nor their goals, and even if they are gods the fact or their identity doesn't need to be discernible. Nor their presence in the earth is obliged to be world-shattering.

Originally Posted by Frost

As a result of this full bore gods in my campaigns tend to be rare (most of my religions are monotheistic or dualistic) and baring incidents from distant mythological ages are fealt reather than seen, heard or otherwise interacted with.

That is another interesting approach, IMO.