Guns: Hand/eye cross-dominance. Problems, solutions, traits?

[vicky_molokh]

Greetings, all!

Suppose a character has a right dominant hand, but left dominant eye. For the purpose of this discussion, changing dominances is not an option for whatever reason (One Eye being one of the possibilities).

How much of a problem is that? Is it a valid Quirk? How big is the Guns roll penalty when shooting with a non-dominant eye?

So you wanna get rid of the penalty . . . what are the options? Shooting with the off-hand will require buying OHWT, and possibly dealing with guns that are non-ambidextrous. Are there other options? Weird stances/grips? What are the benefits and drawbacks of different solutions?

Thanks in advance!

[Leynok]

Is there such a thing as dominant eyes?

Either way shouldn't you use both eyes when shooting something? That is the point of having two eyes right, to be able to judge distances accurately? If you're using both eyes, I don't think there is a problem even if there is a dominant eye or not.

[WaterAndWindSpirit]

Originally Posted by Leynok

Is there such a thing as dominant eyes?

Either way shouldn't you use both eyes when shooting something? That is the point of having two eyes right, to be able to judge distances accurately? If you're using both eyes, I don't think there is a problem even if there is a dominant eye or not.

I have shot BB guns at fairs, and I'm quite good at using them, and I'll tell you it's hard to use the iron sights with both eyes. There are two set of sights that are on a line along the top of the gun, one near your eye, one on the other side, so you need to line one eye and close the other to get the three in line with your target. You don't need to be able to judge distances while shooting unless shooting at ranges long enough that bullet travel time (while they move at supersonic speed mind you) and bullet drop are an issue, and against a (mostly) stationary target, travel time is almost irrelevant.

And there is a thing such as a dominant eye. Try closing one eye, and see if your perspective changes. Close the other now. The eye for which your perspective didn't change is your dominant eye.

As for the OP, the solution I would recommend is the Ambidextry advantage. It only costs five points, and anyone who sets his mind to it can learn how to become ambidextrous. My ex-stepfather learned ambidextry to operate right handed machinery more safely as he was left handed before (he still preferred his left hand, but was able to use his right one properly in a pinch), so I know it's possible.

[SolemnGolem]

The hivemind suggested it would be either a feature or a quirk in my old thread. There were a couple of extremely specific examples where it might make a difference.

Specific to aiming with the non dominant eye, it probably varies from person to person.

[McAllister]

Easy: effective Acc is reduced by 1 if you're using the wrong eye.

[Leynok]

Originally Posted by WaterAndWindSpirit

I have shot BB guns at fairs, and I'm quite good at using them, and I'll tell you it's hard to use the iron sights with both eyes. There are two set of sights that are on a line along the top of the gun, one near your eye, one on the other side, so you need to line one eye and close the other to get the three in line with your target. You don't need to be able to judge distances while shooting unless shooting at ranges long enough that bullet travel time (while they move at supersonic speed mind you) and bullet drop are an issue, and against a (mostly) stationary target, travel time is almost irrelevant.

I see, admittedly I have an amazing zero experience with guns, but I had always thought that closing one eye was actually less efficient.

And there is a thing such as a dominant eye. Try closing one eye, and see if your perspective changes. Close the other now. The eye for which your perspective didn't change is your dominant eye.

My perspective changes no matter which eye is closed, hence why I had thought that closing one eye would always bring negative results.

[Dustin]

Originally Posted by WaterAndWindSpirit

you need to line one eye and close the other to get the three in line with your target.

I misread that as "you need to line one eye and close the other three to get in line with your target", which just made my morning :)

[Gedrin]

Originally Posted by Leynok

Is there such a thing as dominant eyes?

Either way shouldn't you use both eyes when shooting something? That is the point of having two eyes right, to be able to judge distances accurately? If you're using both eyes, I don't think there is a problem even if there is a dominant eye or not.

Depends on what you're shooting and how.

Going for birds or trap shooting with a shotgun generally benefits from both eyes open. I'd guess most "non-aimed" shooting would benefit (not talking GURPS Aim, just RL aim) from both eyes open. The bead on the front is just so you can more easily line up and position the gun relative to your eyes. It's not for "aim". Additionally, 5-stand, sport shooting and such sports benefit from quick target detection, and that means both eyes.

Lots of aimed shooting with sights relies on that straight eye-back-front alignment. Some people have trouble with getting their dominant eye to line up properly when using their dominant hand or just experience interference when sighting. Often their "active eye" will shift, just because the gun is close and they're trying to look downrange. Closing one eye can help this. Even experienced shooters would probably benefit from the reduced distractions. Really good shooters probably don't notice the difference.

I suspect that anyone involved in professional tactical shooting has their eyes under control. Probably comes with that second point in Guns, and wouldn't even count as a perk. Combat shooters are probably keeping their eyes open, even if using pistols and rifles, to benefit from the increased situational awareness.

It occurs to me that having problems with eye/hand dominance is probably a good quirk. Maybe -2 on pistol/rifle work when using either the wrong hand or eye to shoot.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Leynok

I see, admittedly I have an amazing zero experience with guns, but I had always thought that closing one eye was actually less efficient.



My perspective changes no matter which eye is closed, hence why I had thought that closing one eye would always bring negative results.

Keeping both eyes open is general tactical doctrine now but it's for maintaining situational awareness and not improved aiming. It doesn't apply to snipers.

You can only aim with one eye at a time. If you have only one good eye you need to aim with that eye no matter which hand is dominant.

I'm sort of in your theoretical situation. I'm right-handed but the left eye corrects to 20/60 while the right eye corrects to 20/200 so I aim with my left eye (not that I shoot much). My perspective only changes when I close my left eye. The right eye is only contributing peripheral vision.

To add real world complications there are degrees of handedness. I know natural left-handers who are virtually ambidextrous and others who have Total Klutz(right hand only). It's harder to tell with right-handers because they are forced to use their lefts much less often.

Real world tasks are also unevenly penalized by using the off-hand. Writing with the hand you weren't trained with seems hard for everyone. Using a pistol while Aiming and in a braced position does not seem nearly that hard to me. Using longarms with the wrong eye while they're on the wrong shoulder is easier than that in my experience.

Ejection ports and control levers on the wrong side is a minor nuisance only in my experience but I might be one of those people who isn't strongly "handed".

To try and reduce all this to gameability I would say that if a character has any points at all in guns he's learned to aim with his dominant eye and learned to deal with whatever issues that causes.

In other words this is probably below the Gurps level of resolution.

[Gedrin]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Ejection ports and control levers on the wrong side is a minor nuisance only in my experience but I might be one of those people who isn't strongly "handed".

The US Army, and other's I presume, provided an attachable deflector to prevent hot brass from flying in the face of lefties. Lots of AR family uppers just include the bump now. Google "AR-15 left handed" and you'll see a lot of adaptations available. Such things probably aren't easily available for less widely used firearms.