TL5 Revolver malfunction

[otghand]

TL5 Revolver malfunction

The general, but optional, rule for TL5 gun malfunction [B407] is that they malfunction on 16+

Several of the revolvers in HT have the note

[1] Very Unreliable. Malfunctions on 14+ (see p. B407).


Some have the note

[3] Unreliable. Malfunctions on 16+ (see p. B407).


Others have no note at all. Does this mean that they don't ever malfunction? That they malfunction only on 17+?

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by otghand

TL5 Revolver malfunction

The general, but optional, rule for TL5 gun malfunction [B407] is that they malfunction on 16+

Several of the revolvers in HT have the note

[1] Very Unreliable. Malfunctions on 14+ (see p. B407).


Some have the note

[3] Unreliable. Malfunctions on 16+ (see p. B407).


Others have no note at all. Does this mean that they don't ever malfunction? That they malfunction only on 17+?

Variations from the standard rule for Malfunction on a 17+ are noted. Confomance with that rule should be assumed when no notice of exception is to be found.

[otghand]

That is the problem - the standard rule at TL5 is 16+

MALFUNCTIONS
This optional rule applies only to firearms, grenades, and incendiaries. A “malfunction” is a mechanical fail- ure of the weapon; e.g., a misfire or a jam. Unlike a critical failure, a mal- function does not normally endanger the user.
For the purpose of this rule, firearms, grenades, and incendiaries have a “malfunction number,” or “Malf.,” a function of TL.

TL Malf.
3 12
4 14
5 16
6 or higher 17

So at TL5 the standard rule is 16+, yet HT specifies some guns as malfunctioning at 16+, which is in fact the standard, with no comment on others.

It reads as though HT is trumping the standard rule with a new rule that TL5 malfunction is now 17+ unless otherwise noted, but never does it explicitly say that.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by otghand

It reads as though HT is trumping the standard rule with a new rule that TL5 malfunction is now 17+ unless otherwise noted, but never does it explicitly say that.

Basic Set weapons are generic. So the generic TL5 Basic Set weapons malfunction on 16+. High-Tech weapons are specific and use the specific rule for that weapon.

[otghand]

The problem is there is no specific default case I can find stated in HT for TL5 weapons. Each weapon can have notes/specific rules, many do have notes/specific rules, but not all have any notes at all. This is only, near as I can tell, a problem at TL5 where the default rule is 16+. Either the notes for TL5 firearms in HT that say malfunctions at 16+ are superfluous, because all TL5 firearms do unless noted worse, or there is an implied, but not stated, rule in HT that in the absence of any note to the contrary, treat TL5 weapons as TL6 weapons, i.e. with a default of 17+

I can make a logical case for either in the absence of any clearly dispositive text.

Anyone know if Pyramid ever had anything to say on it?

Is there any way to get an "official" ruling from SJ Games?

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Basic Set weapons are generic. So the generic TL5 Basic Set weapons malfunction on 16+. High-Tech weapons are specific and use the specific rule for that weapon.

[Darkclaw]

First, apologies for digging this back up out of the depths, but I didn't want to create a new thread when this one fits my question precisely, and doesn't seem to have been resolved previously. Onwards!

I will shortly be starting up a Weird West game, and I also ran into the problem otghand mentions, namely that p. B407 indicates that TL5 firearms in general Malfunction on a 16+, while some (but not all!) TL5 guns are specifically called out in High Tech (and Adventure Guns) as being Unreliable, with a note that they Malfunction on 16+.

The only reference to Malfunctions I can find in High Tech beyond these notes is on p.81, which specifically refers back to p. B407.

The question is thus the following: the standard rule for Malfunctions for TL5 is a Malfunction on 16+ (as High Tech refers back to that page, and does not tell us not to use those numbers). Why, therefore, are certain TL5 firearms indicated as being Unreliable and Malfunctioning on 16+, when this should be the case for all of them according to p.B407?

I can easily proceed, of course, by simply giving those TL5 firearms which do not have a note in High Tech and Adventure Guns a Malfunction of 17+, just like for TL6 and higher as indicated in the Basic Set, but this doesn't seem right historically. Does anyone happen to know if this is clarified somewhere, and I've missed it?

[Anaraxes]

The one table footnote is shared by several weapons across more than one TL. The note isn't specific to a weapon. (If that were the purpose, they could have put an individual Malf number in the Notes column.)

Instead, I'd just read the Unreliable notation as meaning "1 worse than normal for the TL", rather than as the printed "16" (which is only true for certain TLs).

Similarly for Very Unreliable -- read it as default Malf - 3.

[Darkclaw]

Ah-hah! This is simple, elegant, clears up everything, and makes me feel slightly embarrassed for not thinking of it myself. Cheers Anaraxes!

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

The one table footnote is shared by several weapons across more than one TL. The note isn't specific to a weapon. (If that were the purpose, they could have put an individual Malf number in the Notes column.)

Instead, I'd just read the Unreliable notation as meaning "1 worse than normal for the TL", rather than as the printed "16" (which is only true for certain TLs).

Similarly for Very Unreliable -- read it as default Malf - 3.

Originally Posted by Darkclaw

Ah-hah! This is simple, elegant, clears up everything, and makes me feel slightly embarrassed for not thinking of it myself. Cheers Anaraxes!

The intent of both High-Tech and Low-Tech is that weapons lacking a specific notation for a Malf. stat have Malf. 17.

As all weapons that have higher or lower Malf. number than this have it specifically noted, the generic Malf. numbers from Basic can be assumed to be superseded in the case of individual weapons listed.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Icelander

The intent of both High-Tech and Low-Tech is that weapons lacking a specific notation for a Malf. stat have Malf. 17.

So the default Malf per TL rule from B279 / B407 is obsolete and should be ignored in favor of using 17 at all TLs?