06-24-2011, 12:12 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Boston, MA
|
Elohim and Emotions
A friend of mine will soon be running an Elohite for one of my games. I'm interested to see how it turns out, as he's actually quite in touch with his own emotions. Have any of you had any experiences playing (or being GM for) such a PC? I'm curious how you handle dissonance and such, as Elohim seem so dispassionate in most of the books, but Elohim of Fire especially are described as passionate-but-still-logical.
My friend's PC, at least, used to be an Elohite of Fire, concerned with inspiring love and passion, and punishing the emotionally abusive. He switched to Creation when Gabriel went off the deep end, where he could keep doing pretty much what he did before, but Eli put him back in service to Fire just before ditching Heaven. So now he's in a sort of awkward situation with Gabriel, more concerned with spreading inspiration, but more capable than ever of beating the holy hell out the cruel (thanks to the Malakite of Creation attunement he picked up in the meantime). He's kind of a Jackie Chan type character: jolly, unassuming, and creatively violent only when the need arises. I'm looking forward to having an Elohite who's completely different from the other Elohite in the game (essentially "Ms. Spock"), but I want to make sure I'm giving the player useful guidance on how to avoid dissonance conditions (or putting the player in interesting situations where dissonance seems painful but necessary to avoid). Tips and war stories all welcome. |
06-24-2011, 01:17 PM | #2 |
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Seattle
|
Re: Elohim and Emotions
This is going to sound very off, I think, compared to the true Elohite ideal, but when it comes to actually gaming at the table with dissonance you have to make a few allowances, and here is what I've seen: players of Elohite PCs tend to be very good at rationalizing whatever they planned to do in the first place. Only when the logic train is utterly spurious (or nonexistent) should dissonance come into play. When it's just "a stretch, man", as a GM I'd give the player a squinty look to warn him off repeating it but let it pass. Over time, a good IN player with a new dissonance condition learns to avoid the sketchy bits as a matter of course. I mean, look how epically Khalid rationalized irrational behavior in The Final Trumpet (nearly led to his Fall, of course, but it didn't).
Nothing ever forbids an Elohite from expressing emotion or subjective opinions, only acting on them. As a comparison, Seraphim can fast-talk without lying, but it's distasteful because it is too close to dissonance for comfort. Likewise, Elohim can allow themselves to voice their subjectivity, but since it's a small step from voicing it to acting on it, most go the Vulcan robot route. It's safer, and angels don't like playing with fire when it comes to dissonance (not Fire, heheheh). Elohim of Fire I see as beings that feel very hard, and express those feelings, but ultimately act on logical courses of action, with "obeying my Superior Gabriel's dictates to punish the cruel" as a very logical line of reasoning. I once played an Elohite of Fire that was a fetish club owner, keeping the dom/sub relationship healthy for both parties. (It was a weird game, with a really free-acting Creationer poetry professor and a Destiny Servitor working as a metal band roadie.) For a "jolly, unassuming" Elohite, I'd tell the player that's totally okay, as long as the PC never chooses to act either jolly or unassuming when presenting a different face is more logical. As for advice on putting him in difficult situations, you should find out what the PC wants (or the player wants) that isn't objectively always useful, and throw that in his path. For example, if the party has a favored human, have that human walk in the door while the Elohite of Fire is "creatively punishing" a cruel human and freak out. The Elohite has to choose between continuing the punishment his Superior has ordered without dragging it on so long as to be cruel himself (the objectively correct course) or putting down the hot poker and going after the human to awkwardly explain things (an emotional decision to try and keep a friend, potentially dissonant).* Think about things that players almost always want--more relics and Songs--and use them as bait. An Elohite who abandons his heavenly duties to track down rumors of a strange artifact is acting subjectively (even if recovering the artifact would aid heaven, he has to go with what is more objectively known--although the rest of the party isn't bound by that)**. For the PC you describe, rumors of Eli himself might be a very powerful subjective motivator. *Of course, the player could say that he put the torture on hold because he thought that the human might leave the angels' service, which would be a loss for Heaven, and thus the objective course of action was to stop the "fun" torture and go after the horrified human. This is what I meant by "rationalizing what you want"--both lines of reasoning are good ones, and both arrive at opposing answers as far as objectivity goes. Neither is a spurious explanation, either, so I'd probably let the PC do whichever course of action the player claims is most objective without imposing dissonance. **Here, the reasoning "but it could be useful" really is spurious, using logic to obviously justify what the player wants to do, and would involve dissonance.
__________________
“The world is going to Hell in a hand-basket, but I’ve got Good News: I saved my soul by switching to Heaven.” —Baruel, former Djinn of the Media, now Cherub of Destiny and the Angel of Good News |
06-24-2011, 01:56 PM | #3 |
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Boston, MA
|
Re: Elohim and Emotions
All good advice -- especially using Eli himself as a specific motivator. I will have to think about that.
I think you're right that players will find a way to rationalize things as best they can to fit their dissonance conditions. Part of me wonders if that should bother me (because it doesn't very much), so it's reassuring to hear someone else say that this may not be a big deal in day-to-day play. |
06-24-2011, 03:00 PM | #4 |
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Atlanta GA
|
Re: Elohim and Emotions
my take has been that it's ok for an Elohim to act purely on emotion as long as their is not a logically better choice available. I've never actually seen Elohim as needing to be the Mr. Spocks of the world. In fact suppressing their emotions could if you are an especially mean GM lead to dissonance if it would be more logical to share them.
point A: So say the Elohim likes apples better than oranges and is presented with a choice between the 2, as long as their is no logical reason for him to need to eat the apple their is no dissonance for him picking the orange because he likes it better. Another example I've used is say the Elohim loves another angel and has a relationship with them. This should not be dissonant. Now say he's asked to recommend people for an extremely dangerous mission that they likely won't be coming back from and said lover is the most qualified. If he doesn't recommend them because of his emotions he's strayed into the territory of dissonance. Point B: Elohim A is in a party with several angels. One of the angels has a habit that gets on his nerves. It's not that the angel is evil or anything that will cause trouble for Heaven- the Elohim just doesn't like it. Here he has a few options for how to handle it. A) Talk to the other angel and let him know that it bothers you in hopes that he will stop. (assuming good party dynamic the most logical) B) Try and ignore it because you shouldn't be feeling what you are. (But you are feeling it and ignoring it is likely to just make it grow and increase resentment in the group) C) Ask for a transfer (potentially logical if the team doesn't desperately need you for some reason) D) Become passive aggressive about the matter. (Likely the worst option for an Elohim). Last edited by alexondria; 06-24-2011 at 03:04 PM. |
06-24-2011, 08:24 PM | #5 |
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
|
Re: Elohim and Emotions
I think I've heard this joke before. :P
All joking aside, this thread brings up the same issue as the Seraphim and Profanity thread. I think most of what I would argue here is over on there (inhumane robotic Vulcans). What I will say is that I despise absolutes in my characters (like the D&D alignments). If Elohim want to be passionate, let them be passionate. Just make sure their passion does not overrule their reason (e.g., their anger causes them to take vengeance). It does not mean they are not allowed to get angry. Just as Seraphim are the best at distinguishing truth in others, Elohim are the best at distinguishing emotions in others. I do not believe that either Seraphim or Elohim are totally clueless or completely inept in distinguishing in themselves what they do best with others.
__________________
“He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster…when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you…” –Friedrich Nietzsche Last edited by DBloch2012; 10-10-2012 at 08:07 PM. |
06-25-2011, 09:49 AM | #6 |
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Boston, MA
|
Re: Elohim and Emotions
Yeah, it kind of bugs me that most of the Elohim described in canon materials are basically interchangeable in terms of personality (if not in their Words and goals). The only Elohim who actually show some personality that I can remember are Khalid (who's close to sailing off the deep end) and a character in Liber Servitorum who was described as being reported by an angel of Judgment for "showing excessive emotion." I am happy to have the bland and robotic character in my campaign from time to time, but it's nice to mix things up a bit as well.
Thanks again for all the feedback! |
06-26-2011, 05:54 PM | #7 | |
In Nomine Line Editor
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Frozen Wastelands of NH
|
Re: Elohim and Emotions
Well, my take on Elohim is already in GURPS In Nomine... O;>
Quote:
__________________
--Beth Shamelessly adding Superiors: Lilith, GURPS Sparrials, and her fiction page to her .sig (the latter is not precisely gaming related) |
|
06-26-2011, 08:59 PM | #8 | |
Petitioner: Word of IN Filk
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Longmont, CO
|
Re: Elohim and Emotions
Quote:
(Yes, angel of The Waters. In this particular campaign, Oannes wasn't killed, he was just drastically weakened for a time ... before Belial could finish him off, the Archangel fled into the depths of the sea, where the Prince of Fire dared not follow.)
__________________
“It's not railroading if you offer the PCs tickets and they stampede to the box office, waving their money. Metaphorically speaking” --Elizabeth McCoy, In Nomine Line Editor Author: "What Doesn't Kill Me Makes Me Stronger" |
|
06-26-2011, 09:35 PM | #9 | |
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Seattle
|
Re: Elohim and Emotions
Quote:
__________________
“The world is going to Hell in a hand-basket, but I’ve got Good News: I saved my soul by switching to Heaven.” —Baruel, former Djinn of the Media, now Cherub of Destiny and the Angel of Good News |
|
06-26-2011, 09:42 PM | #10 |
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Boston, MA
|
Re: Elohim and Emotions
Okay, I guess I need to get GURPS IN if there's stuff like that in there. Plus Grigori! :)
|
Tags |
elohim, tips |
|
|