07-24-2014, 12:15 AM | #1421 |
Computer Scientist
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dallas, Texas
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
Just a moment, I think I see part of the disconnect:
"Searle then supposes that he is in a closed room and has a book with an English version of the computer program...However, Searle would not be able to understand the conversation. ("I don't speak a word of Chinese,"[9] he points out.) Therefore, he argues, it follows that the computer would not be able to understand the conversation either." In this he is considering himself a clerk as distinct from the program book contents and from the office supplies he uses in the course of activity. If he does not retain any of the knowledge recorded in the book, he is considering only the hardware's counterpart. Of course the clerk does not speak Chinese, just as an unloaded computer does not speak Chinese, or prepare taxes, or play games! As I said earlier, he is considering a part in isolation. With a different book, he could complete other tasks without knowing how to do them, similar to how rowers can propel a ship to a distant port without knowing where it is because the direction is supplied by the helmsman. And the Greek for helmsman is "kybernetes". Last edited by jeff_wilson; 07-24-2014 at 12:20 AM. |
07-24-2014, 01:09 AM | #1422 | |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
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07-24-2014, 01:22 AM | #1423 | |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
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07-24-2014, 01:27 AM | #1424 | |
Computer Scientist
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dallas, Texas
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
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More like a human who was never exposed to Chinese. The capacity for language remains, as the clerk Searle can still read and write English and thus be able to operate one side of a conversation in another language given the appropriate book. This is similar to the BIOS of an unloaded computer that gives it the ability to load programs. (BTW Searle and I are glossing over the very real distinction between literally speaking a Chinese dialect and writing the Hanzi logogram characters.) |
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07-24-2014, 07:10 PM | #1425 | |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
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07-24-2014, 08:48 PM | #1426 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
As I said, the arguments haven't budged, which means it's not a problem of understanding. Essentially, Searle's argument is "the person inside the box doesn't speak Chinese" and responses are generally along the lines of "that doesn't matter".
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02-15-2015, 11:10 AM | #1427 |
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: France
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Avoiding the identity issue with blockchain
My take on the "multiple perfect copies" question. Not about how to live with it, but more about "maybe there is an alternative that prevents it to overwhelm society and so concurrent perfect copies won't be used".
Avoiding the identity issue with blockchain |
02-15-2015, 11:31 AM | #1428 |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
The brain cells inside my head don't speak English.
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Bill Stoddard I don't think we're in Oz any more. |
02-16-2015, 05:29 PM | #1429 |
Computer Scientist
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dallas, Texas
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
In what sense? They lack literal vocalization of course, but if they lack English comprehension and expression, where else do those arise in you?
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02-16-2015, 08:24 PM | #1430 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question
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Which is parallel to the interaction of the clerk and the reference book and the pieces of paper with hanzi written on them, from which the Chinese room's understanding of Chinese arises. Though I don't think the task that Searle describes the room as performing would count as "understanding Chinese" if a human being did it, either.
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Bill Stoddard I don't think we're in Oz any more. |
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