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Old 07-25-2018, 10:11 AM   #21
HunterS
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy vs TFT

Considering we already have the GURPS/Dungeon Fantasy line for a crunchier experience, we don't have plans to bloat TFT for that purpose. Each game has its place and audience, and TFT is more about the clean simplicity.
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Old 07-25-2018, 10:29 AM   #22
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy vs TFT

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Originally Posted by philreed View Post
Seconded. There is no reason for system bloat or rules over-complication. A more valuable form of support comes down to play aids, adventures, and more things to kill.
The first sentence perfectly encapsulates why I love TFT in the first place, and why I generally am skeptical of more complex rules being added to it.

The second sentence is my perfect dream-world! ;-)
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Old 07-25-2018, 12:23 PM   #23
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy vs TFT

Quote:
Originally Posted by philreed View Post
There is no reason for system bloat or rules over-complication.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterS View Post
. . . we don't have plans to bloat TFT . . .
"Revealed your opinion [bias] is."*

That being said, I'm in some agreement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by philreed View Post
A more valuable form of support comes down to play aids, adventures, and more things to kill.
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Originally Posted by JLV View Post
. . . TFT is a much better system in my mind, simply because I can keep everything in my mind . . .
I would like to wrangle less with essential rules and supplement my experience with optional kinds of immersion related to themes and narratives.

(Aside: Personally, I suspect that TFT may be too limiting for my regular tastes.)


* -- Yoda, Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace.
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Old 07-25-2018, 02:11 PM   #24
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy vs TFT

If I recall correctly, there was a Microgame back in the 1980s that used the TFT system to play out the Science Fiction scenario of boarding a spaceship (similar to the Star Wars scene of boarding Princess Leia’s ship). My memory is a bit hazy on the particulars, but I’m pretty sure I remember this correctly.

Anyway, my point is that TFT can expand to cover high-tech time periods and other game settings without losing its focus on simplicity. I think I even remember an old Space Gamer magazine article about how to play out dancing and drinking at a party in a humorous way. I think the object of the party game based on TFT was to impress the opposite sex or some such, so you would need to succeed at DX-based dancing rolls while making your ST-based rolls to hold your liquor and IQ-based rolls to be charming.

TFT has a bright future that can expand to the Old West, the modern day, or the far future, and all without losing its sweet, sweet simplicity. So I agree with everyone who has championed the KISS (Keep It Simple Steve) Principle, as well as the evaluation of TFT complexity as being 3-4 out of 10 (maybe 5 or so with advanced rules and Wizard spells) while DFRPG probably doubles that complexity to 7-8 and full-on GURPS plus supplements starts pushing as close to 10 as the players desire.
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Old 07-25-2018, 02:27 PM   #25
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy vs TFT

I absolutely love DFRPG and the DF line. I'm running DFRPG right now with some bleed through from the main DF line. It's fantastic.

I've never played TFT, but I've been excited about it ever since I heard Steve was getting the rights back. I can't wait to get my hands on it and take it out for a test drive. I am hoping that it'll provide a decent entry point for my children into TTRPGs as they get older. I'm also hoping to run a few one-shots within my existing RPG club.

I'd be thrilled to see adventures come out with stats for both GURPS and TFT, though, having never played TFT, I wonder how that would work out.
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Old 07-25-2018, 02:33 PM   #26
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy vs TFT

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Originally Posted by ULFGARD View Post
I absolutely love DFRPG and the DF line. I'm running DFRPG right now with some bleed through from the main DF line. It's fantastic.

I've never played TFT, but I've been excited about it ever since I heard Steve was getting the rights back. I can't wait to get my hands on it and take it out for a test drive. I am hoping that it'll provide a decent entry point for my children into TTRPGs as they get older. I'm also hoping to run a few one-shots within my existing RPG club.

I'd be thrilled to see adventures come out with stats for both GURPS and TFT, though, having never played TFT, I wonder how that would work out.
The TFT stats will be much shorter...
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Old 07-25-2018, 02:36 PM   #27
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Default Supplements for GURPS and TFT?

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Originally Posted by ULFGARD View Post
... I'd be thrilled to see adventures come out with stats for both GURPS and TFT, though, having never played TFT, I wonder how that would work out.
Hi Ulfguard,
I think TFT would make a great entry point for your kids. I taught it to my nephew when he was ~9 years old, IIRC.

The problem with adventures for both GURPS and TFT is that a fully written up character in GURPS will take (say) half a page. Where as a TFT write up is a few lines. The magic system and fighting systems are quite different.

So if the adventure was heavy on the plot, and light on the detailed write ups it could work. But the more stuff you want written up in detail, the more difficult the fit would be I think.

Warm regards, Rick.
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Old 07-25-2018, 02:59 PM   #28
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy vs TFT

Quote:
Originally Posted by flankspeed View Post
If I recall correctly, there was a Microgame back in the 1980s that used the TFT system to play out the Science Fiction scenario of boarding a spaceship (similar to the Star Wars scene of boarding Princess Leia’s ship). My memory is a bit hazy on the particulars, but I’m pretty sure I remember this correctly.

Anyway, my point is that TFT can expand to cover high-tech time periods and other game settings without losing its focus on simplicity. I think I even remember an old Space Gamer magazine article about how to play out dancing and drinking at a party in a humorous way. I think the object of the party game based on TFT was to impress the opposite sex or some such, so you would need to succeed at DX-based dancing rolls while making your ST-based rolls to hold your liquor and IQ-based rolls to be charming.

TFT has a bright future that can expand to the Old West, the modern day, or the far future, and all without losing its sweet, sweet simplicity. So I agree with everyone who has championed the KISS (Keep It Simple Steve) Principle, as well as the evaluation of TFT complexity as being 3-4 out of 10 (maybe 5 or so with advanced rules and Wizard spells) while DFRPG probably doubles that complexity to 7-8 and full-on GURPS plus supplements starts pushing as close to 10 as the players desire.
It sounds like you have a somewhat blurry memory of Starleader: Assault. It actually wasn't anything whatsoever like TFT. It was based on an "action point" system, and was not a very good game. Probably because it wasn't playtested or developed enough during the design phase.

Dark City Games, on the other hand, has done a bang up job of "porting" their TFT clone to both the Old West and Sci Fi. I can highly recommend those games to you (and rumor has it that a new Western module will be coming out sometime in the future -- only the second such module done so far!)

As I understand it there are currently no plans to make a non-Fantasy TFT version...
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Old 07-25-2018, 03:22 PM   #29
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Default Re: Supplements for GURPS and TFT?

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Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
Hi Ulfguard,
I think TFT would make a great entry point for your kids. I taught it to my nephew when he was ~9 years old, IIRC.
Thanks! That's excellent, as I'm using GURPS Ultralite for my 6 & 7 year olds currently. The older girl is finding the lack of structure less to her liking, so I suspect that a better rule set is in order. Might not be TFT yet, but it'll be something.

Quote:
The problem with adventures for both GURPS and TFT is that a fully written up character in GURPS will take (say) half a page. Where as a TFT write up is a few lines. The magic system and fighting systems are quite different.

So if the adventure was heavy on the plot, and light on the detailed write ups it could work. But the more stuff you want written up in detail, the more difficult the fit would be I think.
That's what I was afraid of - it's hard to write a fully game agnostic adventure. In one system, a pack of wolves is a terrible threat to a group of beginning adventurers, but nothing more than an annoyance in another. Alas, it was a hope. Of course, it may be possible to use the same basic source material and repackage it (with considerable work) for GURPS DF. I don't know.

In any event, I'm really, really looking forward to unboxing this.
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Old 07-25-2018, 03:50 PM   #30
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Default Re: Supplements for GURPS and TFT?

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Originally Posted by ULFGARD View Post
Thanks! That's excellent, as I'm using GURPS Ultralite for my 6 & 7 year olds currently. The older girl is finding the lack of structure less to her liking, so I suspect that a better rule set is in order. Might not be TFT yet, but it'll be something.
I taught both my boys to roleplay with TFT when they were about 7 and 8 respectively. They picked it up quickly, and apparently enjoyed it enough that they are still roleplayers to this day (they are now 38 and 39 respectively...).
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