[Ultra-Tech/Fantasy] The One Ring Invisibility vs. TL9 Hyperspectral Goggles?

[LokRobster]

As cross-genre Infinite Worlds craziness continues, our "heroes" have visited Middle Earth again. It's basically a Myth-parallel, it started off close to Classic Tolkien but has veered off - the PCs introduced black powder during their last visit, about 300 years before "The Hobbit".

Time dilation between parallels has it about 50 years pre-Hobbit for this visit. There has been much discussion about the current location of the One Ring, and it sounds like the 'Let's Go Loot It!' faction of the group may win out.

So, imagine Gollum wearing the One Ring, hunted by assault rifle PCs w/ Hyperspectral Goggles... what would they see?

Hyperspectral Imaging Sensors (TL9)
These optical sensors electronically fuse passive radar, infrared, visual, and ultraviolet imagery into a single falsecolor television image. pg 61 Ultra-Tech

(I understand some fans may be personally offended by the idea of our mucking up Tolkien, but hey it's a wacky game... move along...)

Just looking for fun plot ideas, reasons why the One Ring may or may not work against Ultra-Tech Vision. I know the actual functionality in this situation is purely a GM fiat, but what would *you* do if you were running it. (assuming you'd run this kind of mix...)

and yeah, taking and using the One Ring is going to have BAD consequences if they get that far.

[chandley]

Well, the movie interpretation (and possibly books? My Tolkien skill is low) suggests that the wearer of the One Ring is somewhat shifted into the spirit realm/ethereal. While they clearly interact with the real world, it still could be used as an excuse to defeat radar. The rest shouldnt help, infrared and UV are too close to normal vision in a fantasy world to have been missed by the rings power.

So I'd vote: "Maybe they dont show up on Hyperspectral at all", and crank Gollum's ST, Wrestling, and Choke Hold way way up :)

[PTTG]

The Ring is a practically godly artifact that makes one invisible to the senses of any living thing (except for certain extremely powerful individuals who are, themselves, godlike).

Considering that all "hyperspectral" components use the EM spectrum, and the ring makes you transparent and non-refractive, it is impossible for the sensor to detect Gollum. However, the wearer is physically in the world and is capable of making sounds. A visual sonar system might detect him... but picking out a small humanoid against a narrow rock tunnel background? Insane.

Also, the ring improves senses and is smart. It may inform Gollum you're coming when it figures out that the sonar pulses are active senses.

[mlangsdorf]

My response to this issue in Mecha Against the Giants was not Perfect Illusion fooled all sensors (though the pilots could have noticed the absence of environmental signs of passage) and likewise, Invisibility masked all EM emissions and reflections. Because Magic. And also to give the low-tech foes a ghost of a chance.

The One Ring, being infused with the power of a fallen angel, should definitely defeat hyperspectral vision. Though again, environmental signs of passage (bent leaves, drops of water, glowing footprints in IR) are going to be fairly obvious to hyperspectral vision, especially with an NAI tasked to notice them and point them out. So it's going to be hard for Gollum to get the drop on the PCs.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by chandley

So I'd vote: "Maybe they dont show up on Hyperspectral at all", and crank Gollum's ST, Wrestling, and Choke Hold way way up :)

Drop the 'maybe' and leave Gollum's ST alone and this get's my vote.

But keep in mind the Goggles aren't just doing nothing... Gollum will still leave big old fat, hot foot and hand prints everywhere. His breath and even wispy traces of body heat (if he get's warmed enough from grappling or running) will also show up. If he get's to sweating his sweat droplets that splash on the ground or other surfaces will shine under the UV.

Or if you want to go with the 'shifting partially across dimensions' the very 'warp' in the brane might be detectable via heat shimmers, spontaneous ultraviolet light creation, or what have you. With Goggles on an enRinged Gollum might appear like the Predator in 'stealth mode'.

[ericthered]

The one ring is a powerful artifact, but its not designed with the aim of being invisible. The invisibility is a side effect. So power level is kind of irrelevant.

Based on what causes the side effect (changing what the wearer is), I'd say that Hyperspectral doesn't work well. That doesn't mean its useless though: in bright enough light, the ring leaves a shadow. If you carry a light source out of the visible spectrum with you and use hyperspecral googles, You should be able to get a nice solid shadow with out Mr. "The moon is too bright" noticing a thing.

[Anthony]

There is some evidence for the ringwraiths being cold; whether this would apply to a living being using the ring (or just negate the living being's heat signature) is an open question, as is whether the cold is physical or spiritual.

I would figure that a device useful for detecting ghosts will also detect someone wearing a ring. Whether or not hyperspectral imaging will do so is a setting issue, but may have already been established.

[Verjigorm]

Well, the Valar(and possibly the Maiar) are described as being able to travel the world clad not in the raimant of the world, aka invisible. Well, maybe more than invisible, as the descriptions of them in visible form are also full of audible terms. Melkor lost this ability, but Sauron seems to have retained it, as he's known for shapeshifting. The Balrog, who are minor Maiar at best*, appear as spirits of fire wreathed in darkness, and there's a reason to believe that they arn't visible unless they WANT to be visible.

The One Ring isn't "just" a magical artifact, it has a substantial, perhaps majority, of Sauron's being invested in it, which is what gives it the amazing level of power it has. That's also why it's treacherous and always trying to reunite with Sauron.

So, what I'm thinking, is that the ring doesn't so much make one invisible, as it makes them like unto a Maiar or Valar. Those without the knowledge and power to use the ring are overwhelmed by that, and become invisible.

There's also, apparently, a spiritual sense it grants, as Frodo was able to see not only the Nine as mortal men, but also Glorfindel as a great and powerful lord of the Noldor. In Fellowship of the Rings, Gandalf says this about the elf lords:

In Rivendell there live still some of his chief foes: the Elven-wise, lords of the Eldar from beyond the furthest seas. They do not fear the Ringwraiths, for those who have dwelt in the Blessed Realm live at once in both worlds, and against both the Seen and the Unseen they have great power.

.

So, I don't think hyperspectral goggles are going to be much use. Heck, Sonar might not be much use.

*Though their level of power is questionable. At one point Tolkein figured there we "no more than seven", and at other times, there were hundreds who rode on the backs of dragons during the assault on Gondolin. Given that Gandalf was a Maiar, and his battle with the Balrog over the bridge cost him his life, I'd say they're pretty frikken powerful on the scheme of things.

[Flyndaran]

I thought the ring grants what the wearer wants/needs the most instinctively. For tiny hobbits/Gollum that revolves around hiding, therefore invisibility.

Not being a Tolkien expert, I have no clue if any non-hobbit ever used the ring to disprove my belief.

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I thought the ring grants what the wearer wants/needs the most instinctively.

No, the explanation given up-thread is correct: it shifts the wearer partly into the spirit-realm if he doesn't already exist there. Men and hobbits don't exist there, and the part of them that interacts with light becomes invisible. They can't see the mortal realm clearly, but they can hear better and they can see things in the spirit-realm.

High Elves and spirits like Valar and Maiar do exist in the spirit-realm, so they won't be shifted to invisibility. Frodo saw Glorfindel's bright spirit-form when he had the Ring on.

The main purpose of the Rings of Power that Sauron created or helped create is to dominate the wills of others. Middle-earth is chock-full of mental powers that can't be seen: the White Council members sit and think to each other on their way back north from Gondor; Gandalf can cast his mind in search of Frodo far away; Sauron actively directs his servants with his will and when his will is taken away they go astray; even Frodo and Gollum instinctively know that if Frodo put on the Ring and commanded Gollum he'd be forced to obey any order.

The Three Elven Rings are different: their purpose is to preserve Middle-earth from time and change. Elrond and Galadriel use theirs to create "timeless" refuges for elves. Gandalf uses his differently: to inspire hearts to resist the Shadow.

Not being a Tolkien expert, I have no clue if any non-hobbit ever used the ring to disprove my belief.

Isildur became invisible when he wore the Ring. The Nazgul were invisible because they had become slaves to Sauron through their Rings. It doesn't seem that dwarves became invisible, but the Rings didn't work on dwarves as expected: it only increased their lust for gold.