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Old 02-14-2018, 10:25 PM   #31
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: A Dungeoneering Fan, but a Total Gurps Newbie

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
With total surprise, a character can benefit from multiple surprise turns against the stunned target(s).
Total surprise is a pretty rare thing for most player characters. It requires the characters to have no idea that someone might be out to kill them that day.
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:28 PM   #32
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Default Re: A Dungeoneering Fan, but a Total Gurps Newbie

Or being in an unexpected situation. I doubt that many people without Combat Reflexes would be capable of reacting without a few second delay when someone starts firing into a crowd (most people do not scan their environment for potential threats).
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Old 02-15-2018, 12:00 AM   #33
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Default Re: A Dungeoneering Fan, but a Total Gurps Newbie

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Or being in an unexpected situation. I doubt that many people without Combat Reflexes would be capable of reacting without a few second delay when someone starts firing into a crowd (most people do not scan their environment for potential threats).
That's true, but being in that situation isn't a common thing to have happen in an RPG, and not usually a good idea. If I were a player, and my character died because someone starting firing randomly into a crowd, and my character was frozen for a few seconds and got hit, I probably wouldn't play with that GM again.
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Old 02-15-2018, 01:04 AM   #34
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Default Re: A Dungeoneering Fan, but a Total Gurps Newbie

Some people have said that GURPS character creation is more complicated than D&D.

I'm going to partially disagree. With the exception of if you are making lots of powers, I find Character creation detailed but not complicated.

You have a book full of skills and advantages and disadvantages...so lots of options...but the process isn't actually complicated. You have a number of points. You buy the advantages and skills you want with those points. Grab some disadvantages for some extra points.

Also, everyone works under the same rules. So If you know how to play your character, you know how to play GURPS. What I mean by that is that in D&D as a Rogue, I had to get familiar with a bunch of different rules that didn't apply to Wizards. Then when I played a Wizard, I had to learn a whole new set of rules...then a new set of rules for the Cleric...then a new set of rules for the Monk. In GURPS character are just characters.

There are some difficulties, but I don't think, despite its undeserved reputation, it is at its base more complicated than D&D.

Now there are some optional rules you can use if you want to make your game more complicated. But if you don't want that, don't use those rules.

And? Know this: You don't need anything beyond the core books. I have run all sorts of genres just out of the core book. I have lots and lots of GURPS books (everything for 4e and lots and lots of stuff for 3e)...but I don't NEED them to run whatever I want. The books are cool, but you are also fine without them.
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Old 02-15-2018, 01:21 AM   #35
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Default Re: A Dungeoneering Fan, but a Total Gurps Newbie

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Some people have said that GURPS character creation is more complicated than D&D.

I'm going to partially disagree.
. . .
To this point, it can be simpler to create a powerful GURPS character than a powerful D&D character (at least in 3.5 and Pathfinder.)

What I mean is that if you were to try to create a D&D character initially at a high level, you need to be concerned about cumulative decisions at the previous levels.

GURPS is designed to create the character directly at a chosen level of aptitude.

Although to a minor degree you could say that the non-linear cost of increased skill levels has a similar "cumulative" effect.

Last edited by Tom H.; 02-15-2018 at 01:32 AM.
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Old 02-15-2018, 01:30 AM   #36
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Default Re: A Dungeoneering Fan, but a Total Gurps Newbie

Just to add another point to my comment though.

I tend to get overwhelmed with the variety of detailed skills and advantages.

I like to focus on the combat ones and then pretend the other stuff comes with role-playing and character background (like in early D&D) until I can get around to adding in the details later.

I need to be able to create focal points and priorities when viewing a character. Sometimes it feels like GURPS keeps trying to get my poor brain to focus on too many things at the same time.
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Old 02-15-2018, 01:54 AM   #37
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Just to add another point to my comment though.

I tend to get overwhelmed with the variety of detailed skills and advantages.

I like to focus on the combat ones and then pretend the other stuff comes with role-playing and character background (like in early D&D) until I can get around to adding in the details later.

I need to be able to create focal points and priorities when viewing a character. Sometimes it feels like GURPS keeps trying to get my poor brain to focus on too many things at the same time.
If your campaigns are primarily or exclusively combat, then I suppose you don't need those other things.

Personally, when going through character creation, I never just leave the players to their own devices to be overwhelmed by choice.

First I give them the campaign set up--
A: You will all be members of small criminal gang in the capital of the Kingdom of a fantasy empire. You will be trying to go from small fries to big time. Think DeNiro in Godfather 2.
B: You will all be important members of a the court of a minor noble house in a time of war and politics. Think Game of Thrones
C: You will all be hard boiled detectives in a 1940s Los Angeles. Think LA Confidential.

Then I sit with them and say, "Tell what you are thinking about for your character?" They give me ideas and I take notes. I ask them a few probing questions like, "what friends to you have? Do you have any enemies? What are your hobbies?" Etc. After they describe the character (with no books open), then I can say. Okay, you want to be a minor noble. That would be Status 1. You mentioned you wanted to be like this...you might want to have these skills. So I can translate their description to crunch and they don't have to look through the book and get overwhelmed.
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Old 02-15-2018, 03:56 AM   #38
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Default Re: A Dungeoneering Fan, but a Total Gurps Newbie

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Some people have said that GURPS character creation is more complicated than D&D.
Those who think that GURPS character creation is more complicated than D&D one are speaking about beginning characters. And, indeed, for a D&D level 1 character, you have very few things to choose. While a GURPS beginning character can lead to as many choice as a more powerful one ...

Now, I still did get your point and do agree with it. Especially if you want to create an experienced character. In D&D and other D&D-like systems, starting at level 5 or 10 leads to choose a lot of options which depend on each others and, so, it can take an amazing amount of time and work ... Furthermore, it is hard to end up with the precise character you have in mind: to get that interesting power, you must first choose that class and those required other powers ...). While, in GURPS, you just have to give him higher skills and a little more advantages than the beginning character ...

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Old 02-15-2018, 07:17 AM   #39
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Default Re: A Dungeoneering Fan, but a Total Gurps Newbie

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Those who think that GURPS character creation is more complicated than D&D one are speaking about beginning characters. And, indeed, for a D&D level 1 character, you have very few things to choose. While a GURPS beginning character can lead to as many choice as a more powerful one ...

Now, I still did get your point and do agree with it. Especially if you want to create an experienced character. In D&D and other D&D-like systems, starting at level 5 or 10 leads to choose a lot of options which depend on each others and, so, it can take an amazing amount of time and work ... Furthermore, it is hard to end up with the precise character you have in mind: to get that interesting power, you must first choose that class and those required other powers ...). While, in GURPS, you just have to give him higher skills and a little more advantages than the beginning character ...
Yeah, to me the comparison to a first level character in D&D is a 50-75 point character with very strict templates determining trait choices.
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Old 02-15-2018, 07:37 AM   #40
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Default Re: A Dungeoneering Fan, but a Total Gurps Newbie

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Yeah, to me the comparison to a first level character in D&D is a 50-75 point character with very strict templates determining trait choices.
Somewhere in the past I heard that a 100-point (or was it 125-point?) GURPS character is roughly equivalent to (or, more loosely, has the feel of) a 1st-level D&D character, with every 25 points thereafter sorta/kinda like a D&D level.

But more recently, I think I read Kromm suggesting that a D&D level is more akin to 50 GURPS points.

Regarding the starting point for level 1, maybe you're right too, that 75 points or so is a good comparison, at least for some D&D classes.

Me, I kind of like the comparison "100 points is like 0-level; every 25 points from there is like D&D level 1 and upward" – though only because it's really easy math.

In the end, I have no idea what the best comparison actually is (to the degree it's meaningful at all). I only take a moment to muse about it here because it's a semi-interesting question that comes up when D&D players ask about GURPS...
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