Rock-Paper-Scissors Cosmic

[William]

Just a random thought that might be interesting to someone out there: a version of Cosmic, the +50% power modifier that basically says "I trump lower powers," but the "lower powers" are in fact cyclic, like a game of rock-paper scissors. For instance, the five Chinese elements act this way toward each other, so you might have Cosmic beings in tune with these elemental forces able to overcome or be subject to the appropriate power around the circle. Their high-powered representatives would have +50% Cosmic power modifiers and would be treated as a tier above the one they beat, but a tier below the one they're subject to.

It also struck me as a reasonable philosophy for a religion's major gods, which could then be reflected in a society's structure:

The War God and the Plague Goddess always beats the Farming God and the Crafter Goddess because war and disease make farming and labor darn near impossible.

The Farming God and the Crafter Goddess always beat the God of Wealth and the Goddess of Nature because wealth depends on productivity, and farmers and crafters tame the wilderness.

The God of Wealth and the Goddess of Nature always beat the War God and the Plague Goddess because the richer side almost always wins the war, and nobody wins against winter.

Rearrange, add deities to groups, or expand the circle (with unrelated deities treated as equal tiers) as desired.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by William

Just a random thought that might be interesting to someone out there: a version of Cosmic, the +50% power modifier that basically says "I trump lower powers," but the "lower powers" are in fact cyclic, like a game of rock-paper scissors. For instance, the five Chinese elements act this way toward each other, so you might have Cosmic beings in tune with these elemental forces able to overcome or be subject to the appropriate power around the circle. Their high-powered representatives would have +50% Cosmic power modifiers and would be treated as a tier above the one they beat, but a tier below the one they're subject to.

If you have a standard tiered cosmic, the top level that beats everything is +50%, but the level that beats ordinary stuff but loses to the top level is +25%. I think if you have a cyclical arrangement I would probably make all places in the cycle count as +25%, since none of them is trumps with respect to all the rest.

[Edges]

I would call it a setting feature and give all the lower ones +0%.

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by Edges

I would call it a setting feature and give all the lower ones +0%.

I would presume the lower ones are still Cosmic with regard to some other mundane power sources, meaning use +25%, but it depends on the setting.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

I would presume the lower ones are still Cosmic with regard to some other mundane power sources, meaning use +25%, but it depends on the setting.

If there are two different actual levels, but each of the top level ones has another one that can beat it, I would treat them as the two lower tiers of a three-tier hierarchy, with the uppermost tier (full Cosmic that beats everything) being empty.

[Daigoro]

So you'd have:

Cosmic +50%- placeholder source, theoretically trumps all lower tiers

Cyclic Cosmic +25%- e.g. Water beats Fire beats Air beats Earth. All beat non-Cosmic sources.

Mundane +0%- other non-Cosmic sources, whether Magic, Supers or Psi.

Is that correct?

Actually, I'm not sure what Edges meant now by "lower ones." I thought he was referring to "lower Cosmic sources."

[Edges]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

Actually, I'm not sure what Edges meant now by "lower ones." I thought he was referring to "lower Cosmic sources."

I was using "lower" in the same way the OP was.

They way I read the OP was that there are really only two levels in the setting. One is the "I trump lower levels" and the other is the "lower powers" which are cyclic (to use the OP's terminology). In this case, I would give the first level a +50% cosmic modifier and the second level a +0%.

If indeed there was an unmentioned "even lower level" that is trumped by both the high level and the lower, cyclic level, then yes I would agree with giving the cyclic level a +25% cosmic modifier.

Basically, I would treat all of the elements of a balanced, cyclic group of sources as a single level with respect to the cosmic tiers rule from GURPS Powers.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Edges

Basically, I would treat all of the elements of a balanced, cyclic group of sources as a single level with respect to the cosmic tiers rule from GURPS Powers.

Yes, that's my view too.

[William]

By "lower" I meant "non-Cosmic" or, if multiple levels were being used, "less Cosmic." The 25% suggested here seems quite reasonable for the last level of Cosmic one takes if it is subject to such rivalries.

[Phantasm]

This is actually a pretty good idea. I might borrow it for several of my cosmic entities in the Marvel Reboot project, actually, given how flexible the cosmic levels seem to be. I'd probably label it as "Cyclic Cosmic" or something similar.