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Old 12-23-2019, 03:25 PM   #11
FireHorse
 
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Default Re: 2-Hex Jab Attack: Option?

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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Why shouldn't a Cavalry Lance impact at two hexes in front of the horse's head? Given P as the pony's head on the diagram on page ITL 132, shouldn't the lance only be able to hit hexes X, Y and Z?
I think this ought to depend on exactly how you're defining the word "lance". I've seen some things called lances that aren't much more than longish spears, but I've seen other lances that are just as long as pikes.

For a really long lance (and using the same illustration you referenced), I'd say you can hit everything except Y and Z.
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Old 12-23-2019, 04:12 PM   #12
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Default Re: 2-Hex Jab Attack: Option?

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A "charge attack" is moving from non-adjacent to adjacent, as defined in the pole weapon rules, and qualifies pole weapons to the +1 die damage defensive attacks.
But not the 2-hex Jab, right?
Right, 2-hex jabs have nothing to do with charge attacks, unless by "charge attack" someone is talking about the name for option (b), which does allow 2-hex jabs.


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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Why shouldn't a Cavalry Lance impact at two hexes in front of the horse's head? Given P as the pony's head on the diagram on page ITL 132, shouldn't the lance only be able to hit hexes X, Y and Z?
Because a cavalry lance in TFT is taken to be shorter than a pike, and equivalent in effective length to a normal polearm, and so the RAW is they're equivalent and you need to use adjDX to determine if it goes before a normal polearm or not.

However one might prefer to do some research and/or develop other house rules. GURPS actually takes the length of each lance into account - you can buy a longer lance though it's harder to hit with.

Last edited by Skarg; 12-23-2019 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 12-23-2019, 05:46 PM   #13
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Default Re: 2-Hex Jab Attack: Option?

A four and a half yard long lance (as given on ITL 109) is going to be held with the butt end no further back than the rear end of the horse. So will impact at least five and a half feet in front of the head of the horse. Anybody in the hex directly in front of the horse is already past the head of the lance.
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Old 12-23-2019, 06:09 PM   #14
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Default Re: 2-Hex Jab Attack: Option?

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Except you left one out: there is also an option for figures that moved TWO hexes or less, to sling ready weapons and ready other weapons.
LOL, no matter how many times I look at these rules I always find something strange and new. I can't remember we have ever run it like that. We always just used to do a half move and Ready a Weapon. Cool.

On second thought, I don't really like the rule though. Why should I only be able to move 2 hexes, why not a half move or a 1 step? Why 2?!? Not exactly logical. We don't have an MA payment system for actions. So no matter my MA, I can still only move 2 and only for this particular action. I always assumed that the crawl 2 hexes were for the purpose of getting away from someone's engagement zone if you started your movement underfoot. But I see no special reason for the Ready a Weapon 2 hex move limit.

Good catch Skarg!
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Old 12-23-2019, 06:23 PM   #15
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Default Re: 2-Hex Jab Attack: Option?

Gargoyle flying along at MA 16 makes 16 attempts to pick up a weapon, one per hex in each of 16 hexes by ITL 104. Given DX 11 he'll grab an average of 10 weapons. Assuming these are Halberds the ST 13 gargoyle then falls out of the air, right?
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Old 12-23-2019, 09:58 PM   #16
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Default Re: 2-Hex Jab Attack: Option?

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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
A four and a half yard long lance (as given on ITL 109) is going to be held with the butt end no further back than the rear end of the horse. So will impact at least five and a half feet in front of the head of the horse. Anybody in the hex directly in front of the horse is already past the head of the lance.
That is a great reality point and I agree does deserve a good house rule that would be consistent with the described length of the weapon.


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On second thought, I don't really like the rule though. Why should I only be able to move 2 hexes, why not a half move or a 1 step? Why 2?!? Not exactly logical. We don't have an MA payment system for actions. So no matter my MA, I can still only move 2 and only for this particular action. I always assumed that the crawl 2 hexes were for the purpose of getting away from someone's engagement zone if you started your movement underfoot. But I see no special reason for the Ready a Weapon 2 hex move limit.!
My guess is that it was Steve's feeling that it felt right to him that someone slinging and readying weapons could move faster than 1 hex, but would be slower than people doing the things that allow 1/2 MA. That seems to make intuitive sense to me for a generic rule that could include someone putting away one or even two weapons and drawing one or two weapons in one turn - I think they'd be slower than people moving into combat with ready weapons. If only one weapon were being drawn from a convenient place, though, maybe half-MA would feel more appropriate.


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Gargoyle flying along at MA 16 makes 16 attempts to pick up a weapon, one per hex in each of 16 hexes by ITL 104. Given DX 11 he'll grab an average of 10 weapons. Assuming these are Halberds the ST 13 gargoyle then falls out of the air, right?
This seems to me utterly off topic in this thread, and also wrong.

I don't think fliers would be wise to try to pick up things from the ground while flying.

Seems like an invitation to the GM to ask for a 3- or 4-die DX roll or crash into the dirt.

Gargoyles can't even make one punch attack while flying without it being at DX -4, so if picking up something while flying by were even allowed, I'd think it'd be at DX -4 at best.

The rule also talks about the attempt being "on the run" and "while running", not while flying.

The rule also mentions "a" weapon, not a weapon for every hex of movement. I think this is a one-item-per-turn (if you make your DX roll) option.

There's also a limit on the number of weapons that can be held at once. Even if the GM did allow picking up items while flying over them, and even if you had a dragon with enough ST to hold an octopus is each of it's four claws, I'd expect them to only be able to hold at most 12 one-handed weapons.

And, not on-topic in a thread about 2-hex jabs.
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Old 12-24-2019, 01:32 AM   #17
Steve Plambeck
 
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Default Re: 2-Hex Jab Attack: Option?

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The current presentation of available actions is very confusing and a little incomplete and to be fair redundant.
Indeed Nils, I thought so too.

Hence my attempt to re-do the options table you may find useful here:

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...27#post2284227
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Old 12-24-2019, 03:34 AM   #18
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Default Re: 2-Hex Jab Attack: Option?

Speaking of 2-hex Jabs, I disagree with ITL regarding Tridents. 1˝ yards…? While I have seen some short Tridents, I've never seen one that short — and most are about the same height as the owner, or even taller.
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Old 12-24-2019, 03:40 AM   #19
Chris Rice
 
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Default Re: 2-Hex Jab Attack: Option?

As has already been pointed out: it's option (b). I don't see where any confusion arises.

"Move up to half MA and attack with any weapon except a missile weapon."

So you move up to half your MA and jab with your pole weapon. The specifics are in Melee page 13 which points out that a jab is a normal attack and cannot do double damage for a charge attack even if it has met the other conditions.

There's nothing here comparable to the problems with the Defend or Dodge options.
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Old 12-24-2019, 04:04 AM   #20
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Default Re: 2-Hex Jab Attack: Option?

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As has already been pointed out: it's option (b). I don't see where any confusion arises.

"Move up to half MA and attack with any weapon except a missile weapon."
Yes, that's what the List of Options says on ITL 102, and Option B is named "Charge Attack".

But then in the section on Pole Arms on ITL 111, it says: "A charge attack is defined as an attack in which the attacker moves from a non-adjacent hex to a hex adjacent to his target."

Well you can't 2-hex Jab somebody who's adjacent to you, so apparently you can't combine a Charge Attack with a 2-hex Jab. Ergo, confusion.
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