Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-07-2013, 08:42 AM   #21
Christopher R. Rice
 
Christopher R. Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
Default Re: Ritual Path Magic already has supplements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dataweaver View Post
In terms of its "supplements": I posted my critique of the Bottled Magic rules not long after the article first came out; I'm happy to see that it had an impact on the revised version found in RPM. At this point, I consider the original Bottled Magic article to be of historical significance only: use the version found in RPM instead.
PK revised and I added a few things that I cut from the original. Overall, I'm happier with the revised version in Thauamtology Ritual Path Magic than the one that appeared in Pyramid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dataweaver View Post
RPM also has rules for "Slow and Sure Enchanting". The rules are based on the Improvement Through Study rules (i.e., 200 hours of work gets you a character point's worth of enchantment); so the only thing that's needed from the Metatronic Generators article are the points-to-cash conversion; and frankly, even that could come from other sources. Impulse Buys has a points-for-cash option in it, which could be run in reverse: have one point of enchantment cost 10% of the campaign average starting cash.
Quote:
Originally Posted by munin View Post
There's a points-for-cash mechanic right in the Basic Set: $1,000 per point for abilities which require skilled procedures and recovery time (Surgical Modifications, p. B295), or $2,000 or more per point for "instant" ability acquisition (Supernatural Modifications, p. B295).
That could work. Keep in mind that you don't need just the values, because you aren't using gadget modifiers with the system - the "Gadget Modifiers" are including in the cost of the item.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dataweaver View Post
I am somewhat disappointed that the Enchantment system was almost entirely divorced from the RPM system: it's actually "buy an equivalent of your ritual's effects as item-limited Powers". It's nice; but it has about as much to do with RPM as it has to do with regular Magic. I'd rather see something that's based on the Charm Creation rules, but slowed way down to account for the fact that the enchantment is permanent: something like what the "alchemical talismans and charms" rules in Magic do for the default Alchemy system. What follows is an example of how it might be done:
I have such a system in the final stages before Pyramid submission.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dataweaver View Post
Shift the energy accumulation rolls from five seconds or minutes to one eight-hour day per roll (with Ritual Adept being useless for speeding things up); the time isn't spent on accumulating the energy so much as carefully weaving the energy into the item's form, which takes a lot longer. Rules for using these items could be derived from the equivalent part of the aforementioned "alchemical charms" rules, with the "talisman recharge time" being based on how many multiples of the creator's Safe Threshold (RPM page 26) the ritual's energy cost is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celti View Post
I really like this idea. I'd been playing around with introducing Raw Magic (as per Thaumatology) for making enchantments, but I think I'm going to play around with this idea instead (or possibly in addition).
Hmmm. Interesting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dataweaver View Post
I haven't had the opportunity to pick up the other articles referenced, so I can't comment on them yet.
Let us know when you do! :-)
__________________
My Twitter
My w23 Stuff
My Blog

Latest GURPS Book: Monster Hunters Power Ups 1
Latest TFT Book: Crown of Eternity

Become a Patron!
Christopher R. Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 08:59 AM   #22
Langy
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: CA
Default Re: Ritual Path Magic already has supplements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dataweaver View Post
RPM also has rules for "Slow and Sure Enchanting". The rules are based on the Improvement Through Study rules (i.e., 200 hours of work gets you a character point's worth of enchantment); so the only thing that's needed from the Metatronic Generators article are the points-to-cash conversion; and frankly, even that could come from other sources. Impulse Buys has a points-for-cash option in it, which could be run in reverse: have one point of enchantment cost 10% of the campaign average starting cash.
Considering it's 200 hours of flat-out work, it should probably cost at least 1xTL's Monthly Pay per CP in enchantments. Really, it should be at least 1.15x monthly pay, since even one month of full time work isn't enough to provide 1 CP in enchantment. Once you factor in taxes and the like (which come out before monthly pay is factored) and they become about 1.25x monthly pay at least. That's $3,250 per point of enchantment at TL8.

And that's assuming mages are Average wealth; they could very easily be Wealthy or Very Wealthy by default, making it 5x or 20x that price.

There's no way enchantment should be cheaper than that if you retain the 200 hours per CP ratio, though.
Langy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 11:12 AM   #23
dataweaver
 
dataweaver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: the frozen wastelands of Southern California
Default Re: Ritual Path Magic already has supplements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
That could work. Keep in mind that you don't need just the values, because you aren't using gadget modifiers with the system - the "Gadget Modifiers" are including in the cost of the item.
I presume that the Gadget Modifiers are baked into the Enchantment Limitations (RPM pages 33-34).
__________________
Point balance is a myth.[1][2][3][4]
dataweaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 11:19 AM   #24
Christopher R. Rice
 
Christopher R. Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
Default Re: Ritual Path Magic already has supplements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dataweaver View Post
I presume that the Gadget Modifiers are baked into the Enchantment Limitations (RPM pages 33-34).
Like a whole-grain bread.
__________________
My Twitter
My w23 Stuff
My Blog

Latest GURPS Book: Monster Hunters Power Ups 1
Latest TFT Book: Crown of Eternity

Become a Patron!
Christopher R. Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 03:57 PM   #25
PK
Assistant GURPS Line Editor
 
PK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dobbstown Sane Asylum
Default Re: Pyramid Support for Ritual Path Magic (and other books)

I should've said this earlier, Ghostdancer: Thanks for the "Designer's Notes" look at how to best use Metatronic Generators to turn RPM enchanted items into dollar signs! That helps cement the link between Pyramid #3/46 and Ritual Path Magic for those who may not have realize how well those two tie together.

Are there any other Pyramid articles that work really well with RPM, that I missed in my OP?
__________________
Reverend Pee Kitty of the Order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Twitter) (LJ)

MyGURPS: My house rules and GURPS resources.

#SJGamesLive: I answered questions about GURPS After the End and more!
{Watch Video} - {Read Transcript}
PK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 04:03 PM   #26
Christopher R. Rice
 
Christopher R. Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
Default Re: Pyramid Support for Ritual Path Magic (and other books)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PK View Post
I should've said this earlier, Ghostdancer: Thanks for the "Designer's Notes" look at how to best use Metatronic Generators to turn RPM enchanted items into dollar signs! That helps cement the link between Pyramid #3/46 and Ritual Path Magic for those who may not have realize how well those two tie together.

Are there any other Pyramid articles that work really well with RPM, that I missed in my OP?
Sure. I try to help where I can. You know that. :)

That said, Safe As Houses works quite well with ritual path magic. I further expanded the rules for building magical matrices using Threshold energy on my blog here.
__________________
My Twitter
My w23 Stuff
My Blog

Latest GURPS Book: Monster Hunters Power Ups 1
Latest TFT Book: Crown of Eternity

Become a Patron!
Christopher R. Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 10:51 PM   #27
Lamech
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Default Re: Ritual Path Magic already has supplements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Langy View Post
Considering it's 200 hours of flat-out work, it should probably cost at least 1xTL's Monthly Pay per CP in enchantments. Really, it should be at least 1.15x monthly pay, since even one month of full time work isn't enough to provide 1 CP in enchantment. Once you factor in taxes and the like (which come out before monthly pay is factored) and they become about 1.25x monthly pay at least. That's $3,250 per point of enchantment at TL8.

And that's assuming mages are Average wealth; they could very easily be Wealthy or Very Wealthy by default, making it 5x or 20x that price.

There's no way enchantment should be cheaper than that if you retain the 200 hours per CP ratio, though.
Mages can magic themselves into higher wealth categories. For example a staff with independent income. In TL8 assuming average wealth that's 200$ a month. 2400 a year. More for limitations. Probably a round a quarter of a million if we consider what a safe investment would get you.

Now there are issues when it comes to selling items. You might sell to a demon who just kills you instead of scrounging up the cash. And of course buying something might get you scammed. Or the enchantment might have some extra limitations like say... "Temporary Disadvantage: Fanaticism (the enchanter)"

So buying enchantments? Not easy. Anyone wanting to sell an enchanted items won't be doing it as their main method of living. Even discounting the independent income trick they'll use the item to make money, not sell it. The real price of an enchanted item is the adventure to get it. Maybe you buy it from a paranoid enchanter. You probably need to go to a second person so you can be sure it isn't trapped. Its possible the enchanter won't accept money, but instead demand something money can't buy.
__________________
John
Cee
Martel
Hiriko
Andrew
Lamech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 12:02 AM   #28
Langy
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: CA
Default Re: Ritual Path Magic already has supplements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamech View Post
Mages can magic themselves into higher wealth categories. For example a staff with independent income. In TL8 assuming average wealth that's 200$ a month. 2400 a year. More for limitations. Probably a round a quarter of a million if we consider what a safe investment would get you.

Now there are issues when it comes to selling items. You might sell to a demon who just kills you instead of scrounging up the cash. And of course buying something might get you scammed. Or the enchantment might have some extra limitations like say... "Temporary Disadvantage: Fanaticism (the enchanter)"

So buying enchantments? Not easy. Anyone wanting to sell an enchanted items won't be doing it as their main method of living. Even discounting the independent income trick they'll use the item to make money, not sell it. The real price of an enchanted item is the adventure to get it. Maybe you buy it from a paranoid enchanter. You probably need to go to a second person so you can be sure it isn't trapped. Its possible the enchanter won't accept money, but instead demand something money can't buy.
Sure, but my point was that the only enchantments that would ever happen would be things that someone is willing to sacrifice more than a month of full-time pay per CP for. It means that almost nothing will ever be enchanted, since it's almost never going to be worth doing.

The only enchanted items that'd ever be created would be things that are stupidly low-priced CP-wise - things like Unaging, for example. Almost nothing else is worth it, since it'd be much more worth it to contract the mage to manufacture charms.
Langy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 01:56 AM   #29
PK
Assistant GURPS Line Editor
 
PK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dobbstown Sane Asylum
Default Re: Pyramid Support for Ritual Path Magic (and other books)

<MOD> Guys, I feel like this is veering off-topic. Discussing alternatives to "Metatronic Generators" is fine to a point, but let's keep the thread focused on Pyramid articles. If you're going to continue talking about enchantment systems, please keep it related to that article (or to any other Pyramid article that you think is relevant to RPM). I already did thread surgery once; I'm not going to do it again. </MOD>
__________________
Reverend Pee Kitty of the Order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Twitter) (LJ)

MyGURPS: My house rules and GURPS resources.

#SJGamesLive: I answered questions about GURPS After the End and more!
{Watch Video} - {Read Transcript}
PK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2020, 02:19 PM   #30
Pragmatic
Ceci n'est pas une tag.
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vancouver, WA (Portland Metro)
Default Re: Pyramid Support for Ritual Path Magic (and other books)

Bumping this up so I can find all the links.

Obligatory new post, how does one create a sword +1 (both to hit and damage)? I'm not at my computer, so I can't browse through my stash, but I would prefer advantage-based enchanted items over Magic hardcover enchanted items, and I'm not sure how to create an advantage that grants fixed to hit and damage (instead of Arm ST).
__________________
I'm a collector, not a gamer. =)
Pragmatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
pyramid, ritual path magic

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.