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Old 05-27-2019, 03:49 AM   #11
MikMod
 
Join Date: May 2019
Default Re: +1 IQ collar - for my wolf?

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
I and the people I played with tended to dislike and not include attribute enhancers, and from that perspective would point out the note on ITL 161: "These are thoroughly useful items, and GMs may wish to limit their availability drastically."

Allowing an IQ enhancer to let people learn spells does open up some odd exploits which different people might say was cool/interesting or annoying, e.g. a group or guild hall which has one might pass the item around from wizard to wizard, allowing the entire group to act for some purposes as if the entire group had higher IQ, but were limited to using it one at a time (whoever has the item at the moment).
I really did not use them at all, but I assumed that they would work just like an additional stat point - with the caveats you quoted - which is why there is a health warning on them!

Also I would not allow that exploit, since you would have to be wearing the item the whole time you were studying and (p45) "It is assumed you were practising or studying during the time you were earning the experience" to add a new spell or talent. I guess you could gradually use it to help people access slightly higher level spells over a really long period, but as you say, only the person with the +IQ item could actually cast the spell in any case. If I was in a group of any size, would I really spend my precious xp on a spell I could only cast if I happened to get hold of the IQ ring? Probably not if I am out adventuring. More likely if I am a permanent resident of a wizard enclave. Also, it could help 'bind' wizards to their cabal... Interesting...
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Old 05-27-2019, 11:29 AM   #12
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: +1 IQ collar - for my wolf?

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Originally Posted by MikMod View Post
I really did not use them at all, but I assumed that they would work just like an additional stat point - with the caveats you quoted - which is why there is a health warning on them!

Also I would not allow that exploit, since you would have to be wearing the item the whole time you were studying and (p45) "It is assumed you were practising or studying during the time you were earning the experience" to add a new spell or talent. I guess you could gradually use it to help people access slightly higher level spells over a really long period, but as you say, only the person with the +IQ item could actually cast the spell in any case. If I was in a group of any size, would I really spend my precious xp on a spell I could only cast if I happened to get hold of the IQ ring? Probably not if I am out adventuring. More likely if I am a permanent resident of a wizard enclave. Also, it could help 'bind' wizards to their cabal... Interesting...
Yeah, it's actually an interesting exploit, but still an exploit I usually would tend not to want in most of my campaigns.

Consider that some spells are useful outside combat an emergency situations, so passing around a +IQ item could actually not be much of a disadvantage for those spells, for cooperative-enough people.

Also the Aid spell would allow someone to get their IQ boosted enough to cast spells they know but lack the IQ for.

e.g. you could have a corps of ST 8 IQ 9 non-wizards that you train in Aid and (with a +2 IQ item) Illusion. In combat half of them cast Aid +2 IQ on the other half, who then create illusions for two turns, then cast +2 IQ Aid on the other half, who then all cast illusion for two turns... ;-)

Or, a guildhall might use it to enable more of their number to be able to learn very-high-IQ spells, but they'd only be able to cast them if they had the guild's precious IQ enhancer.

Kind of interesting situations, though to my mind, a bit gamey/munchkiny.

Last edited by Skarg; 05-27-2019 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 06-01-2019, 01:15 PM   #13
KevinJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Arizona
Default Re: +1 IQ collar - for my wolf?

I could see using an IQ +1/+2 magic item to enable a spell caster to use a scroll higher than his normal IQ. Or cast a normally inaccessible spell from a Grimoire.

I like the idea of increasing the IQ of an animal companion with a magic item or a 'wish' that same way you can with yourself.

I also cannot find a reference to not using temporary magical enhancement to learn new Talents of Spells, but I'm sure it's there somewhere.
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Old 06-01-2019, 02:38 PM   #14
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: +1 IQ collar - for my wolf?

I don't think anyone can make a ruling on this sort of stuff other than the group at your table; it touches on how much you want magic to be there as a mechanism for solving problems and creating opportunities. There is no wrong answer, other than the one you don't like!
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Old 06-02-2019, 05:02 PM   #15
MikMod
 
Join Date: May 2019
Default Re: +1 IQ collar - for my wolf?

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Originally Posted by KevinJ View Post
I also cannot find a reference to not using temporary magical enhancement to learn new Talents of Spells, but I'm sure it's there somewhere.
Guess what - its in the OLD rules, but got cut in the new version. So what is RAW now?
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Old 06-03-2019, 01:02 PM   #16
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: +1 IQ collar - for my wolf?

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Originally Posted by MikMod View Post
Guess what - its in the OLD rules, but got cut in the new version. So what is RAW now?
Aha! That seems to have happened a few times.

Where is it in the old rules?
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Old 06-03-2019, 01:36 PM   #17
MikMod
 
Join Date: May 2019
Default Re: +1 IQ collar - for my wolf?

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Aha! That seems to have happened a few times.

Where is it in the old rules?
ITL (Old) p11 - clearly states:

"(1) Some magic items increase one or more attributes of their users. However, the increase is NOT permanent, but only lasts as long as the magic item is worn - or in the case of a magic potion, only for a day or less. When a magic item gives you a temporary IQ increase, you can NOT use the increased IQ to learn new spells or talents."

It's slightly unhelpful that this kind of clarity is lost in places in the new edition. :/
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Old 06-03-2019, 01:40 PM   #18
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: +1 IQ collar - for my wolf?

(Yes, I agree. I think it was another case of Steve trying to simplify the talent system and inadvertently erasing some clarity and creating other ambiguity and potential confusion.)

Thanks for finding and sharing that reference - it restores my sense of sanity on that point!
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Old 06-05-2019, 02:05 AM   #19
David Bofinger
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sydney, Australia
Default Re: +1 IQ collar - for my wolf?

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Originally Posted by MikMod View Post
But with the magic collar, my wolf's IQ would actually be 7, correct? I mean, wizards can use the +1 IQ item to master higher level spells than their 'natural' or 'base' IQ, so it really does increase IQ, in terms of learning things, right...?
Animal intelligence is different to person intelligence, see e.g. the definition of intelligence in p16 or the description of the chupacabra on p91. You can increase the IQ of your wolf, giving it IQ 7 on the animal intelligence scale.
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