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Old 01-29-2016, 12:41 AM   #1
Minuteman37
 
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Default Techno-Sorcery and The Nazis

So Let's say I'm a Applied Xenology™ style RPM mage from a TL12 universe and I find myself in Germany circa 1939. I quite like this Hitler chap and his message about ethnic purity (also those uniforms are fabulous!), so I decided to help the fella out.

How do I do that SJGames?

Assume no future gear and a skill level of 16 for all paths.
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Old 01-29-2016, 02:35 AM   #2
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Default Re: Techno-Sorcery and The Nazis

Convince him not to invade russia lol
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Old 01-29-2016, 05:06 AM   #3
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Default Re: Techno-Sorcery and The Nazis

Well, he has a significant problem in understanding how the society he's inside works, and what its weak points are. The Nazis' most fundamental problem is they took on too many opponents at once, and lost the battle of GNP. Your outsider's actual best tactic is to become a special envoy for Hitler and spend his time mentally influencing the leaders of states with which Germany isn't yet at war.

So the UK and France don't go to war over Poland, and maybe even ally with Germany against the Soviets, as Hitler hoped. That should deal with the USSR. You then keep Hitler from declaring war on the USA when the Japanese attack (This is easier because the U-boats haven't been sinking merchant ships in the Atlantic).

However, I suspect this isn't the kind of answer you're looking for.
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Old 01-29-2016, 07:01 AM   #4
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Default Re: Techno-Sorcery and The Nazis

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
Well, he has a significant problem in understanding how the society he's inside works, and what its weak points are. The Nazis' most fundamental problem is they took on too many opponents at once, and lost the battle of GNP. Your outsider's actual best tactic is to become a special envoy for Hitler and spend his time mentally influencing the leaders of states with which Germany isn't yet at war.

So the UK and France don't go to war over Poland, and maybe even ally with Germany against the Soviets, as Hitler hoped. That should deal with the USSR. You then keep Hitler from declaring war on the USA when the Japanese attack (This is easier because the U-boats haven't been sinking merchant ships in the Atlantic).

However, I suspect this isn't the kind of answer you're looking for.
A lot of the scenarios that have the Nazis winning have the fundamental fallacy that Hitler was rational. When put like that, people would say, "You think?" But I mean he wasn't even rational in the way Stalin was. He had the mindset of a serial killer not of a Mafia don. He really could NOT avoid getting into a war with the whole world because getting into wars with people gave him thrills. You could say that Churchill liked getting into wars with people too. But he had a reasonable sense of proportion if only from being a self-satisfied member of the ruling class of a comfortable parliamentary state. It is hard to imagine Hitler keeping enough of a lid on himself to avoid going to war with everyone.

Furthermore, militarism was an inherent part of the Nazi platform. It appealed to the desire to reverse WWI, in the sense that a new coach rouses a team that had a bad year. If somehow the rest of the world could have contrived not to get into a war with Hitler, he would have been sorely disappointed.
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Old 01-29-2016, 07:34 AM   #5
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Default Re: Techno-Sorcery and The Nazis

Step one is to cure his syphilis before it makes him crazy(er). Then, you use Voluntary Sacrifice to get a few hundred thousand energy, and magically wipe a country or three off the map. That pretty much goes a long way towards conquering the world.
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Old 01-29-2016, 08:47 AM   #6
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Default Re: Techno-Sorcery and The Nazis

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Originally Posted by jason taylor View Post
A lot of the scenarios that have the Nazis winning have the fundamental fallacy that Hitler was rational. When put like that, people would say, "You think?" But I mean he wasn't even rational in the way Stalin was. He had the mindset of a serial killer not of a Mafia don. He really could NOT avoid getting into a war with the whole world because getting into wars with people gave him thrills. You could say that Churchill liked getting into wars with people too. But he had a reasonable sense of proportion if only from being a self-satisfied member of the ruling class of a comfortable parliamentary state. It is hard to imagine Hitler keeping enough of a lid on himself to avoid going to war with everyone.

Furthermore, militarism was an inherent part of the Nazi platform. It appealed to the desire to reverse WWI, in the sense that a new coach rouses a team that had a bad year. If somehow the rest of the world could have contrived not to get into a war with Hitler, he would have been sorely disappointed.
Yea my Dad is a big world war two buff and we've had many conversations over the years concerning just how compatible Nazi philosophy and Hitlers world view are with an actually functioning nation.
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Old 01-29-2016, 08:58 AM   #7
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Default Re: Techno-Sorcery and The Nazis

Does the technowizard have even a single computer of his own to run spells on? Until he does that he's not going to be able to do any magic.

If he can get the nazi's making the gear he needs to run spells (especially the hardened ones) he can pull off all sorts of nifty stuff. But that's very advanced tech for the time period, and just building them runs into the stacking magic rule.

If he's limited to just his own spell casting on one computer, He can wreck the havoc that RPM is famous for. Reconnaissance is a powerful option. As is mind controlling Hitler to be more reasonable. You can't stop the nazi ideology, no, but you can stop (I mean slow down) the declarations of war to a reasonable level.

The dangerous part about the USSR, though, is that you can't wait forever. Stalin WILL launch an attack if given enough time.
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Old 01-29-2016, 09:28 AM   #8
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Default Re: Techno-Sorcery and The Nazis

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Originally Posted by jason taylor View Post
A lot of the scenarios that have the Nazis winning have the fundamental fallacy that Hitler was rational. When put like that, people would say, "You think?" But I mean he wasn't even rational in the way Stalin was. He had the mindset of a serial killer not of a Mafia don. He really could NOT avoid getting into a war with the whole world because getting into wars with people gave him thrills. You could say that Churchill liked getting into wars with people too. But he had a reasonable sense of proportion if only from being a self-satisfied member of the ruling class of a comfortable parliamentary state. It is hard to imagine Hitler keeping enough of a lid on himself to avoid going to war with everyone.
The loss of the Tripartite Pact countries was a long sum of coincidences. Their odds where actually good. There are no elements to liken Hitler personality to that of a serial killer.
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Old 01-29-2016, 10:23 AM   #9
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Default Re: Techno-Sorcery and The Nazis

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
Does the technowizard have even a single computer of his own to run spells on? Until he does that he's not going to be able to do any magic.

If he can get the nazi's making the gear he needs to run spells (especially the hardened ones) he can pull off all sorts of nifty stuff. But that's very advanced tech for the time period, and just building them runs into the stacking magic rule.

If he's limited to just his own spell casting on one computer, He can wreck the havoc that RPM is famous for. Reconnaissance is a powerful option. As is mind controlling Hitler to be more reasonable. You can't stop the nazi ideology, no, but you can stop (I mean slow down) the declarations of war to a reasonable level.

The dangerous part about the USSR, though, is that you can't wait forever. Stalin WILL launch an attack if given enough time.
Just took a look at Tech and Toys 2, a Complexity 3 Macroframe is said to be TL 7.25 or equivalent to a Macroframe made in the 1950s. That doesn't sound too unreasonable for the Nazis to build with the assistance of a future man. Also let's assume he's able to wright the Magic software stuff who's name I'm unable to remember and can't look up at the moment. You know the one that also doubles his charm's per complexity limit.
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Old 01-29-2016, 01:43 PM   #10
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Default Re: Techno-Sorcery and The Nazis

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Originally Posted by Minuteman37 View Post
Just took a look at Tech and Toys 2, a Complexity 3 Macroframe is said to be TL 7.25 or equivalent to a Macroframe made in the 1950s. That doesn't sound too unreasonable for the Nazis to build with the assistance of a future man.
A complexity 3 machine is a late 1950s computer, not an early one. It needs a lot of development and at least one TL7 invention (to provide a memory - there are several ways) from a mid-1930s technology base. If this guy is TL12 and going to guide TL6 engineers, he's going to need to have learned a bunch of skills at TL6 beforehand, or cope with a -11 TL penalty.

Going down 6 TLs is like one of us trying to invent a computer that can be built with Roman-era technology: there's a real problem with communicating the ideas, and we have no idea how to do things efficiently with the tools available, which is likely to make the locals dismiss us as crackpots.

Taking a whole lot of TL12 computers, and some very robust power converters with him seems more practical.
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