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 08-06-2012, 07:24 PM #1 BurnongWinter   Join Date: Aug 2012 A weird situation Now let me explain the situation we ran into in our last munchkin game. So someone was at 5 levels and equipment included, he kick down the door and he turn over a level 2 monster. The thing is, he was under a curse that made him change his sex so he had a -5 to his combat level. 5 - 5 = 0 but!!! It is said in the rules that you cannot go under 1. Now he is 1 against 2 and lose. That's where things get tricky, he says that since he his a warrior, he can discard a card and add + 1 to his combat force. He then do it and says 2 vs 2 I kill the monster! My question is: is he right? I mean that the penalty for changing sex is a -5 but since he was at 5, he dropped to 1 but then buffed himself by 1 to win the fight. Should the full penalty for the sex change still apply? He would still stand at 1 since 6 - 5 = 0. Sorry for my english, not my native language. I tried to explain myself in as few words as I could :)
08-06-2012, 07:41 PM   #2
bonetm

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Brazil
Re: A weird situation

Quote:
 Originally Posted by BurnongWinter My question is: is he right? I mean that the penalty for changing sex is a -5 but since he was at 5, he dropped to 1 but then buffed himself by 1 to win the fight. Should the full penalty for the sex change still apply? He would still stand at 1 since 6 - 5 = 0. Sorry for my english, not my native language. I tried to explain myself in as few words as I could :)
The rules make a distinction between your Level and your level (also called your combat strenght). The first one means the number showing in your counter. Your Level cannot go down for less than 1. But your combat strenght can go to 0 or less! A Level 1 player with a -5 penaly has a combat level of -4!

So, he isn't right in that, he would have a combat strenght of 0.

But, since he is a Warrior, he can use his Berseker ability and discard two cards to make his level go up to 2. Since this is a tie, he wins.

Note that after he does that other players may still play cards to buff the monster (or to lower his strenght even more).
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08-06-2012, 08:02 PM   #3
Flemroid

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NY
Re: A weird situation

Quote:
 Originally Posted by bonetm (or to lower his strenght even more).
I was mistakenly under the impression that a monster's strength could not go below 1 but that a players could. So a monsters strength can be reduced to 0 or negative numbers but his level can't? Is there a way to even reduce a monster's level?
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 08-06-2012, 08:14 PM #4 bonetm MIB     Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Brazil Re: A weird situation The same works for the monsters: the Level is the value printed in the card. The monster's combat strenght can go to zero or less. It's Level is not changed unless the card say so. Yes, there are a few cards that say to change the Level of the monster, but in expansions, not on the basic Fantasy set. __________________ Igor Toscano MiB: #1602
 08-06-2012, 08:20 PM #5 BurnongWinter   Join Date: Aug 2012 Re: A weird situation What if I used my friend way of thinking but with monsters now? Example taken out from my head: I'm fighting against a level 4 monster and I'm a level 3 munchkin. I play the card baby (direct translation from french, hope it's the good name) which states: -5 to the monster level, minimum 1. My friend then plays a card, +3 to the monster's side and says the monster's now level 4 you lose. Would he be right? Or the monster's level would still be loser than mine since 4 - 5 + 3 = 2( remember the lvl 1 minimum) and then beat it since I'm level 3. Last edited by BurnongWinter; 08-06-2012 at 08:29 PM. Reason: Changing completly my post
08-06-2012, 08:26 PM   #6
Clipper

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: A weird situation

Quote:
 Originally Posted by BurnongWinter A player as a level and a combat strengh as I understand it but for a monster, his level and combat strengh are de same. Read every card and you will see on every monster enhancer: + or - to the monster level. The word monster's combat strengh is never used anywhere. So I think that everytime there is a +6 against dwarf for exemple, it is to the monster's level since the term monster's combat strengh doesn't exist. Feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong :)
You have an old printing of Munchkin. The new printings of those cards no longer include the "to Level" part. You and monsters now have a Level and a Combat Strength, and while Level cannot go below 1, Combat Strength can.

They changed the rules in 2010 so that virtually nothing changes the level of the munchkin or monsters (except a few cards like Typographical Error and Two-Headed). You have the choice of using the old rules or the new rules when using your old set, but to see that and the other changes made in 2010, take a look here.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by BurnongWinter What if I used my friend way of thinking but with monsters now? Example taken out from my head: I'm fighting against a level 4 monster and I'm a level 3 munchkin. I play the card baby (direct translation from french, hope it's the good name) which states: -5 to the monster level, minimum 1. My friend then plays a card, +3 to the monster's side and says the monster's now level 4 you lose. Would he be right? Or the monster's level would still be loser than mine since 4 - 5 + 3 = 2( remember the lvl 1 minimum) and then beat it since I'm level 3.
Seeing as you completely edited the post, I'll answer this one too. I can't say for the old rules, but with the new rules, it is a Level 4 monster with a combat strength of 2.
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Last edited by Clipper; 08-06-2012 at 08:34 PM.

 08-06-2012, 08:31 PM #7 Bampop MIB     Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Palm Bay FL Re: A weird situation + or - to Monster's Level would indicate an older printing of the set in question. As I have older sets of The Good, The Bad and The Munchkin and Munchkin Fu 2, I have some cards that read the old way. If your cards say that, I'd recommend seeing if it's an older printing. The following quote is from the General Card Changes section of the Munchkin Change Log for the 2010 update found here. "All Monster Enhancers have had "Level of" deleted from their modifier description. Negative Monster Enhancers no longer say "Minimum Level 1," either." __________________ Andy Partridge MiB #3282, Palm Bay, FL Munchkin, Zombie/Cthulhu Dice, Burn in Hell!, Revolution!, Castellan, Chez Geek, OGRE DE, Chupacabra, Nanuk mib3282@gmail.com
08-06-2012, 08:39 PM   #8
BurnongWinter

Join Date: Aug 2012
Re: A weird situation

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Bampop + or - to Monster's Level would indicate an older printing of the set in question. As I have older sets of The Good, The Bad and The Munchkin and Munchkin Fu 2, I have some cards that read the old way. If your cards say that, I'd recommend seeing if it's an older printing. The following quote is from the General Card Changes section of the Munchkin Change Log for the 2010 update found here. "All Monster Enhancers have had "Level of" deleted from their modifier description. Negative Monster Enhancers no longer say "Minimum Level 1," either."
Oh... That would explain everything, it's weird because the guy's game was bought about 2 months ago.... Maybe we don't have access to the new printing here in Canada, the game's in french, that may be the cause.

And I'm a bit confused, does a level 4 monster with a combat strengh of 2 get smashed by a munchkin with a combat strengh of 3? XD

08-09-2012, 10:05 AM   #9
Knuckels

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Pine Mountain, GA
Re: A weird situation

Quote:
 Originally Posted by BurnongWinter He then do it and says 2 vs 2 I kill the monster!
At 2 vs 2 he loses!

08-09-2012, 10:15 AM   #10
Andrew Hackard
Munchkin Line Editor

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Re: A weird situation

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Knuckels At 2 vs 2 he loses!
Nope, he was a Warrior.
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