Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-02-2020, 06:11 AM   #1
Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2
 
Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: The deep dark haunted woods
Default Alternate Take On Magery Advantage

The conventional form of Magery (+1 to IQ per level for magical skills) is logical and workable, but it lacks the mythic feel that most magic genres require. After all, the difference between Magery 1 and Magery 3 is rather academic.

So a proposal (I don't know if this has been proposed before, though, and I didn't find it in Thaumatology, but I may have overlooked it) ...

Magery is a four-level advantage. No spell has Magery as a prerequisite; rather first-level Magery is needed to cast spells at all.

Each level of Magery would lower the difficulty of spells by one level. Spells are M/VH skills at Magery 1, M/H at Magery 2, M/A at Magery 3, amd M/E at Magery 4.

This would provide a more cinematic feel to the entire setting. It would also justify that common trope, the talented normal who manages to master magic in a ridiculously short time.

Example 1: Doctor Not-Normal (Magery 4) shows up at the Secret Magic School. Student Magey McAverage (Magery 1) is already there. Both study the same spell for 200 hours, earning 1 CP. McAverage learns the spell at IQ-3 level, but Not-Normal has mastered it at IQ level. After learning enough to acquire 8 CP, McAverage has learned his first spell at IQ level, while Not-Normal has acquired eight spells at IQ - an entire prerequisite chain. (In short order, Not-Normal is hailed as the Wizard Supreme With Cheese and jealousy drives McAverage into a Dark and Terrible path ...)

This can allow common magic-users (at Magery 1 or 2) to be village-level commonplace but the true powers of the age (at Magery 3 or 4) to stand out before they get gray hair. But an average magic-user can study for many years and live up to the classic image, with a long gray beard and much lore, and be an equal to the talented ones.

Example 2:
Young Protagonist McScarface is a Child of Destiny. As such he is subject to attacks by dark spirits and must learn a spell to repel them. The vast majority of mages are Magery 1 with a few at Magery 2, thus all spells are considered difficult, and the repelling spell has a number of prerequisites, so few people manage to learn it in a reasonable time. This means few even try to learn it. But McScarface is a Child of Destiny with Magery 4, so with some intense tutoring, he masters the repelling spell in a short time.

Does anyone have any comments? Suggestions? Observations?
__________________
"When you talk about damage radius, even atomic weapons pale before that of an unfettered idiot in a position of power."
- Sam Starfall from the webcomic Freefall
Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2020, 06:28 AM   #2
khorboth
 
khorboth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Denver, CO
Default Re: Alternate Take On Magery Advantage

My first impression is that you don't seem to have done much.

The difference between "+1" and "The skill is one category easier to learn" is entirely semantic. They are mathematically equivalent.

Then, you're making spells all (except for a few) start harder to learn than the default system and tacking on some extra bookkeeping. And this caps Magery at the equivalent of the old version of Magery 3. That's pretty powerful, but not epic. If memory serves, DF suggested a cap of Magery 5. That's epic. The removal of Magery prerequisite for spells is pretty trivial overall.

There's nothing wrong with your system, it just seems unnecessary.

Personally, I have no problem using the default Magery mechanic to paint the narrative that some people have an easier time than others learning magic. Perhaps what you want is to say that Magery can't be bought during play, but is an inborn talent? YMMV.
khorboth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2020, 07:09 AM   #3
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: Alternate Take On Magery Advantage

One alternative would be to take the rules from RPM and apply them the following way to standard Magery:

1. Magery does not add to spell skill levels but, instead, serves as a cap on skill levels (12+Magery).

2. Magery is open-ended, and it can be improved after character creation as long as the character possesses Magery 0.

3. Magery gives mages an ER equal to (Magery x 3) and allows mages to store spells equal to (Thaumotology + Magery).

With those three changes, Magery matters a lot more than in the standard system. Someone with Magery 0 is only a dabbler while a professional mage really needs a minimum of Magery 3. It also gives a Vancian feel, as mages have spells stored for future use (making Thaumotology a critical skill for any professional mage). For additional fun, make it a Ritual Magic and/or Threshold-limited system (where the ER is instead Threshold buffer).

Last edited by AlexanderHowl; 01-02-2020 at 07:35 AM.
AlexanderHowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2020, 07:25 PM   #4
CeeDub
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: UK
Default Re: Alternate Take On Magery Advantage

Just popping in to say how much I love your off-brand character names.
CeeDub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2020, 08:22 AM   #5
Gnomasz
 
Gnomasz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Poland
Default Re: Alternate Take On Magery Advantage

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post

With those three changes, Magery matters a lot more than in the standard system.
Yeah, you see, in my opinion Magery already matters way too much. As it caps the output of damage spells, and is cheaper than IQ, I've never seen anyone take Magery at a level lesser than maximum allowed.

I'm in the "make it just a talent, with 4 levels cap, and decouple damage off it" camp.
__________________
My irregular blog: d8 hit location table
Gnomasz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2020, 03:33 PM   #6
maximara
On Notice
 
maximara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sumter, SC
Default Re: Alternate Take On Magery Advantage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2 View Post
Magery is a four-level advantage. No spell has Magery as a prerequisite; rather first-level Magery is needed to cast spells at all.
Except for the four-level part this is effectively how magery worked back in GURPS 1e-3.x, Also you are forgetting about the interaction of Magery and mana. You can have buckets of Magery but if you are in a no-mana area and don't have anyone with the Mana Enhancer advantage it does't matter beans.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnomasz View Post
Yeah, you see, in my opinion Magery already matters way too much. As it caps the output of damage spells, and is cheaper than IQ, I've never seen anyone take Magery at a level lesser than maximum allowed.
If you think that is bad I remember when Eidetic Memory added to spells...and mundane skills (they got rid of the second part of that in 2e IIRC). PC Magery 3 Mages with Eidetic Memory 1 all over the place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2 View Post
I'm in the "make it just a talent, with 4 levels cap, and decouple damage off it" camp.
Magery is not the only way to cast spells in GURPS. One has to remember that with a System (unlike a patchwork quilt of rules like AD&D1-2 were) is that changing one part can have unexpected effects elsewhere. There is a reason Super 1e's Magic Power 40/level advantage (which worked much like you are suggesting IIRC) disappeared within a year - it was a major pain the the butt to balance with the rest of the system.
__________________
Help make a digital reference for GURPS by coming to the GURPS wiki and provide some information and links (such as to various Fanmade 4e Bestiaries) . Please, provide more then just a title and a page number.
maximara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2020, 09:13 PM   #7
Rupert
 
Rupert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
Default Re: Alternate Take On Magery Advantage

Quote:
Originally Posted by maximara View Post
If you think that is bad I remember when Eidetic Memory added to spells...and mundane skills (they got rid of the second part of that in 2e IIRC). PC Magery 3 Mages with Eidetic Memory 1 all over the place.
In 3e Eidetic Memory gave mundane mental skills a multiplier to points put into them, so you learned them vastly more cheaply. For spells it 'only' gave a flat bonus. For a mage who was never going to have many non-spell skills it generally wasn't worth it over more IQ, but for a well-rounded mage with lots of skills it was absolutely worth getting (after magery 3 and plenty of IQ of course).
__________________
Rupert Boleyn

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
Rupert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2020, 06:35 PM   #8
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: Alternate Take On Magery Advantage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnomasz View Post
Yeah, you see, in my opinion Magery already matters way too much. As it caps the output of damage spells, and is cheaper than IQ, I've never seen anyone take Magery at a level lesser than maximum allowed.

I'm in the "make it just a talent, with 4 levels cap, and decouple damage off it" camp.
Magery is really no more expensive than IQ without Per and Will, and IQ matters more than Magery after Magery 3 in the standard system. A character can start with IQ 20, HT 12, Will 16, Per 16, and Magery 3 for 215 CP. If they are a minor superhuman (250 CP plus 100 CP negative traits), they can easily take 50 spells at 21 (if H) or 20 (if VH) for 1 CP each and then load up on other mental skills. For example, Diplomacy and Fast-Talk at 20 each cost 6 CP and gives +4 to reaction rolls.
AlexanderHowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2020, 09:15 PM   #9
Rupert
 
Rupert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
Default Re: Alternate Take On Magery Advantage

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Magery is really no more expensive than IQ without Per and Will, and IQ matters more than Magery after Magery 3 in the standard system.
That depends on which spells you intend using a lot - if you're going to focus on those with caps on level, high Magery is very useful as it raises the cap - assuming you have access to enough energy to take advantage of this, of course.
__________________
Rupert Boleyn

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
Rupert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2020, 10:39 PM   #10
maximara
On Notice
 
maximara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sumter, SC
Default Re: Alternate Take On Magery Advantage

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Magery is really no more expensive than IQ without Per and Will, and IQ matters more than Magery after Magery 3 in the standard system. A character can start with IQ 20, HT 12, Will 16, Per 16, and Magery 3 for 215 CP. If they are a minor superhuman (250 CP plus 100 CP negative traits), they can easily take 50 spells at 21 (if H) or 20 (if VH) for 1 CP each and then load up on other mental skills. For example, Diplomacy and Fast-Talk at 20 each cost 6 CP and gives +4 to reaction rolls.
This is an excellent point. IMHO the people who complain about the damage of spells in the standard GURPS Magic system are coming from either D&D-like games where you need huge, insane amounts of damage because "hit points" represent more then the ability to take actual physical or Supers like games where the setting is woven into the Hit points where in GURPS they are more effectively handled by cinematic rules.
__________________
Help make a digital reference for GURPS by coming to the GURPS wiki and provide some information and links (such as to various Fanmade 4e Bestiaries) . Please, provide more then just a title and a page number.
maximara is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.