Pyramid 3-33 Low Tech

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Bows article is awesome. Couple questions though.

Is there any advantage to a heavier arrowhead that couldn't be had more cheaply by making the shaft heavier?

Nope. Is all that matters is arrow mass. The heavier the draw weight and bow limbs, though, the heavier you can get the shaft for higher efficiency.

Are the Acc values in the article intended to correspond to standard acc scores, or acc scores recalibrated as per the Reduced Acc option on LT:75?

Sorta, but not really. I saw a video where a Korean archer with a modern, tricked out bow shot one carbon fiber arrow THROUGH another, the Robin Hood Trick. That worked out, given the distance, to be about Acc 4.

So it's a realistic treatment that way. I scaled it so that longer bows had higher Acc, as they do in Basic, and that faster arrows have higher Acc (thanks to a suggestion by a helper). So they should roughly correspond, but no guarantees.

[Ninja Monkey]

I've found some Pyramid Issues include stuff that isn't that useful, but still worth buying because of one or two articles. Not so of this addition - all very useful and interesting. Def. worth buying if running a campaign in Low Tech environment and like to get technical.

[seasong]

Originally Posted by Trachmyr

A few questions about blowguns:

Heh, thank you! You caught two errata, and asked some interesting questions. (I'm a little embarrassed at the errata, of course.)

1 & 2. The real life differences between darts, spikes, and barbed versions of either, are below the resolution of GURPS. We're talking about slightly better range at which the blowgun is accurate, slightly (less than 1 HP) better ability to penetrate thin hide, and so on. In real life, this makes darts more desirable than spikes, even though darts require more effort (and the presence of metal) to make, and even though spikes have a nastier wound channel (which, for a poisoned weapon, isn't really very important). It also makes barbs less desirable (they hurt accuracy and range) except in cases where the barbs are necessary for utility (some groups used barbed darts to fish, for example).

If you want a gameable difference, giving spikes -1 damage overall is reasonable. Barbs could be treated like barbed arrows are: CF +0, but most spikes/darts don't have them.

3. That looks like an errata. The long dart/spikes should weigh 0.1 lbs., and the very long should weigh 0.25 lbs. The CPS and lengths are correct, so apparently I just lost my mind when I was writing the weight numbers down. I've sent in a request for errata.

4. Before. And in hindsight, I should have written that as "Acc +1*" (with the "*" referring to the table footnote "* Weapon must be a Small Blowgun or larger." That was more the intent, and would be important if, for example, you applied Harsh Realism for Ranged Weapons.

5. If you want to use a hollow tube as a staff, it will weigh more than a staff that is solid. For minimum ST when used as a staff, I would use the LTC2 rules for minimum ST.

6. The passage down the length of the blowgun is thinner or wider. The blowgun itself needs a certain structural strength to remain reasonably straight while held out horizontally, so a thinner passage usually results in slightly thicker walls, while a thicker passage usually results in slightly thinner walls. The weight does actually change somewhat, but no more than the variance between one craftsman's blowgun and another's, so I left it as not having an effect.

7. That's an errata. Breath Mastery should only affect range. I've sent in a request for the errata.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by seasong

That looks like an errata. The long dart/spikes should weigh 0.1 lbs., and the very long should weigh 0.25 lbs.

Really? Are those accurate weights? The only reason I ask is because 0.1 lbs is the weight of a 31" inch long, 31/64" aspen stick (0.08 lbs) and a light war point (0.02 lbs.)

They just seem really heavy relative to arm-long arrows!

For another perspective on why this surprises me so:

Arrows and bullets are often measured in grains, at 7,000 to the pound. Your blow gun projectiles are, at 0.1 and 0.25 pounds, 700 and 1750 grains.

For comparison:

.22 caliber bullet (.22LR or M16 projectile): 40-65 grains
9mm pistol bullet: 115-147 grains
.45 ACP pistol bullet: 230 grains
.50 caliber machine gun bullet: 650-750 grains
Medieval War Arrow: 1200-1500 grains
20mm cannon round: 1543 grains


Doug

[seasong]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Really? Are those accurate weights? The only reason I ask is because 0.1 lbs is the weight of a 31" inch long, 31/64" aspen stick (0.08 lbs) and a light war point (0.02 lbs.)

They just seem really heavy relative to arm-long arrows!

They are a little heavy.

I based the weights on the ammunition for the Blowpipe in Low-Tech, because one goal was to be 100% compatible with the numbers there (this is also why the Acc numbers are a bit high - to approximate reality, apply Harsh Realism for Ranged Weapons).

Modern darts that I've been able to weigh or get a weight for come out to half the mass of a similarly-described dart... but they typically have a lightweight plastic base rather than stone or ceramic, and the base is a large part of the mass. So the Low-Tech numbers are at least plausible.

Blowgun spikes are probably more directly comparable to arrows... because they are basically fat (2/3", maybe a hair thicker or thinner) arrows, often with a very similar head! Assuming identical proportions otherwise, an aspen blowgun spike 31" long should weigh about 0.18-0.2 lbs.

So... yeah, a bit high, but it matches Low-Tech, and it's not so far off that suspension of disbelief is a problem, unless you spent some time recently obsessing over the exact weight of a 31" aspen arrow with a light war point ;-)

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by seasong

They are a little heavy.

I based the weights on the ammunition for the Blowpipe in Low-Tech,

Modern darts that I've been able to weigh or get a weight for come out to half the mass of a similarly-described dart... but they typically have a lightweight plastic base rather than stone or ceramic, and the base is a large part of the mass. So the Low-Tech numbers are at least plausible.

Blowgun spikes are probably more directly comparable to arrows... because they are basically fat (2/3", maybe a hair thicker or thinner) arrows, often with a very similar head! Assuming identical proportions otherwise, an aspen blowgun spike 31" long should weigh about 0.18-0.2 lbs.

So... yeah, a bit high, but it matches Low-Tech, and it's not so far off that suspension of disbelief is a problem, unless you spent some time recently obsessing over the exact weight of a 31" aspen arrow with a light war point ;-)

Wow. Great info, but those are HEAVY projectiles.

dhc

[Trachmyr]

First I want to start off by saying that while I bought the issue for the Bows... I am VERY HAPPY about the blowgun treatment, it's the primary ranged weapon of my most detailed campaign world! I can now envision blowgun towers with a tricked out huge blowgun sitting upon a center tripod that can strike fear into assailants. Kudos!

Originally Posted by seasong

Heh, thank you! You caught two errata, and asked some interesting questions. (I'm a little embarrassed at the errata, of course.)

1 & 2. The real life differences between darts, spikes, and barbed versions of either, are below the resolution of GURPS. We're talking about slightly better range at which the blowgun is accurate, slightly (less than 1 HP) better ability to penetrate thin hide, and so on. In real life, this makes darts more desirable than spikes, even though darts require more effort (and the presence of metal) to make, and even though spikes have a nastier wound channel (which, for a poisoned weapon, isn't really very important). It also makes barbs less desirable (they hurt accuracy and range) except in cases where the barbs are necessary for utility (some groups used barbed darts to fish, for example).

If you want a gameable difference, giving spikes -1 damage overall is reasonable. Barbs could be treated like barbed arrows are: CF +0, but most spikes/darts don't have them.

Ah, so darts are meant to specificly represent metal darts... I didn't catch that earlier. Perhaps instead of -1 damage to spikes, they should be subject to a (0.5) armor divisor?

As for barbs, one reason is that the blowguns I model do indeed often represent fishing versions... the other is to make the removal of the darts take time, allowing for any poison to reach the wound more efficiently. I houserule barbed darts as requiring a DX roll at a penalty equal to the damage rolled (before DR and multipliers) to remove the dart... extra time gives normal benefits, a critical failure inflicts 1 additional point of damage.

3. That looks like an errata. The long dart/spikes should weigh 0.1 lbs., and the very long should weigh 0.25 lbs. The CPS and lengths are correct, so apparently I just lost my mind when I was writing the weight numbers down. I've sent in a request for errata.

OK

4. Before. And in hindsight, I should have written that as "Acc +1*" (with the "*" referring to the table footnote "* Weapon must be a Small Blowgun or larger." That was more the intent, and would be important if, for example, you applied Harsh Realism for Ranged Weapons.

OK, the munchkin in me was just seeing ACC6 Huge Blowguns before bracing & projectile quality. ACC5 is still very respectable though.

5. If you want to use a hollow tube as a staff, it will weigh more than a staff that is solid. For minimum ST when used as a staff, I would use the LTC2 rules for minimum ST.

I was specificly envisioning bamboo staff/guns. Perhaps I'll make a houserule on this for specific material combinations.

6. The passage down the length of the blowgun is thinner or wider. The blowgun itself needs a certain structural strength to remain reasonably straight while held out horizontally, so a thinner passage usually results in slightly thicker walls, while a thicker passage usually results in slightly thinner walls. The weight does actually change somewhat, but no more than the variance between one craftsman's blowgun and another's, so I left it as not having an effect.

OK, but would it be reasonable to vary weights by 10%-20% for these versions with modifications to CF? I understand it's below the normal level of detail, but for my campaign world, it is somewhat important.

7. That's an errata. Breath Mastery should only affect range. I've sent in a request for the errata.

The only problem with that is the fact that the Perk seems a bit anemic without the damage bonus. How about the perk allows you to treat any blowgun as if it had a mouthpiece... if it does have a mouthpiece, change it to +3 multiplier rather than a +2 multiplier. This would also mean that it is no longer a leveled perk.

One final question for you... not related to the article, but related to blowguns. What affects would using them underwater incur, provided they could be used at all? -2 damage, 1/2 ACC and 1/10th range perhaps?

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Trachmyr

. . .while I bought the issue for the Bows...

Squeeee!

Thanks. I hope you found it worth your money.

[Trachmyr]

It looks very interesting, although I haven't had a chance to sit down and play with the numbers yet (thanks for the Worksheet! I'm not afraid of math, but geez...), but I'm sure I'll have a lot of fun designing custom bows.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Trachmyr

It looks very interesting, although I haven't had a chance to sit down and play with the numbers yet (thanks for the Worksheet! I'm not afraid of math, but geez...), but I'm sure I'll have a lot of fun designing custom bows.

Heck, *I* wouldn't sit down to do this without a spreadsheet, either.