On using grenades

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by MrFix

Here's an absolute chad maneuver - you pull the grenade's pin while it is in a grenade pouch. The spoon instantly detaches and countdown begins. Don't try it for grenades mounted on webbing by spoon. Continue using your longarm as needed, keeping mindful of the timer. Then ready the grenade from the pouch as needed and throw it. Much more economical than holding it in hand for 3 seconds.

Anyone with Common Sense would realize that this is a fantastically bad idea unless they also had both Absolute Timing and Combat Reflexes

The GM would also be well within his rights to require a character trying this stunt to make a Will roll, possibly at a penalty, to attempt it. Possibly with bonuses for Combat Reflexes, Fearlessness, On the Edge, Overconfidence, and/or Unfazeable.

[MrFix]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Anyone with Common Sense would realize that this is a fantastically bad idea unless they also had both Absolute Timing and Combat Reflexes

The GM would also be well within his rights to require a character trying this stunt to make a Will roll, possibly at a penalty, to attempt it. Possibly with bonuses for Combat Reflexes, Fearlessness, On the Edge, Overconfidence, and/or Unfazeable.

You mean you play soldiers without Combat Reflexes (baseline combat trait expected from all fighters), Absolute Timing (To know how long it takes to cook grenades, avoid vehicle's gun as it changes facing, hide gunshots behind explosions or jets taking off, in general plan your actions seconds ahead) and Lightning Calculator (keep track of how many shots you and the enemy fired, re-assemble explosive packages precisely without paper and pen, calculate bullet drop and wind adjustment, reliably estimate enemy force size by witnessing a few gunmen and comparing it to enemy country's standard squad size)?

Realistic Navy SEAL is a 250-point character. If your GM only gives you 80 and then starts grilling you for fighting like a mad dog when you can't succeed by skill and ability (due to lack of), that sounds like bad GM.

[RGTraynor]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

On the other hand, some men who survived WWI had become very good at returning grenades to sender (anecdotally including one Irishman who became a cop in Northern Ireland after the war; his reflexes saved himself and several others during an inspection, when an IRA chap threw a grenade over a wall and the cop threw it back with great speed).

And then there are fictional sources. A Modesty Blaise short story has an otherwise useless pacifist preacher catch a grenade on the fly and returning it to sender with devastating effect -- said preacher happened to be a former cricketer who was a skilled fielder and bowler.

[The Colonel]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Yup, less reliability. TL8 grenades should be accurate; TL6 ones might be off by a second.

Ian Hogg reported that testing Japanese grenades captured after WW2 showed that some had, effectively, a 0 second fuse. It was not, however, obvious as to whether these were standard issue grenades with defective fuses or specialised devices intended for booby-trapping.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

Ian Hogg reported that testing Japanese grenades captured after WW2 showed that some had, effectively, a 0 second fuse. It was not, however, obvious as to whether these were standard issue grenades with defective fuses or specialised devices intended for booby-trapping.

The Japanese grenades I've read about were very different from allied or even German models. No pin and spoon or even pullstring. With one atachment they became rifle grenades,with another they were ammo for the "knee mortar" and by themselves they could be used as hand grenades.

They did not do any of these things very well and in hand grenade mode they had a sort of "direct percussion" fuse where you had to bang the grenade on something hard. Your helmet would serve if no rocks were handy.

I'm not sure how you'd use them in booby traps and I believe defective fuses were probably common.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

The Japanese grenades I've read about were very different from allied or even German models. No pin and spoon or even pullstring. With one atachment they became rifle grenades,with another they were ammo for the "knee mortar" and by themselves they could be used as hand grenades.

They did not do any of these things very well and in hand grenade mode they had a sort of "direct percussion" fuse where you had to bang the grenade on something hard. Your helmet would serve if no rocks were handy.

I'm not sure how you'd use them in booby traps and I believe defective fuses were probably common.

From what I can find on Wikipedia, the common grenades - the Type 10, the Type 91 (basically an upgraded Type 10), and the Type 97 (modified Type 91 - hand grenade only and nominal 4-second fuse instead of the longer 7-8 seconds of the Type 91) - all had safety pins of some flavor, but were indeed percussion-activated.

As for how to use them in booby traps, you'd take the safety pin out, and setup your trap so that when it were sprung, it would result in the fuse being struck hard enough to activate it. Having something fall on it, or it fall on something hard, would be an option - for the latter, provided you can keep the orientation right for the fall, you could intend for them to fall on enemy soldiers, activating upon striking their helmets. Defective fuses rather than grenades purpose-made for booby traps does sound more likely, however.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by RGTraynor

And then there are fictional sources. A Modesty Blaise short story has an otherwise useless pacifist preacher catch a grenade on the fly and returning it to sender with devastating effect -- said preacher happened to be a former cricketer who was a skilled fielder and bowler.

The author might have been inspired by the Victoria Cross winner I referenced upthread.

[Kaspar]

Cooking off the grenades for a second or two is apparently done in urban fighting.

Should a grenade detonate at the start or the end of the character’s turn?

Fast Draw (Ammo) should be usable both for magazines and grenades and other small items, I think.


Proper, safe way to throw a grenade:

Turn 1: Free action to let go of the firearm, Fast Draw (Ammo) to take the grenade, Ready to pull the pin.
Turn 2: Ranged Attack to throw the grenade. Fuse 4.
Turn 3: Grenade lands. Fuse 3. (Character uses Ready or FastDraw(Longarm) for their gun)
Turn 4: Fuse 2
Turn 5: Fuse 1.
Turn 6: Detonation.

Aiming could be done with the spoon still on, delaying the fuse. Since grenades have ‘accuracy’ zero, two turns of Aiming would give +1, three turns for +2. Cooking-off the grenade for an extra second should be reasonable.

Enemies get a Perception roll to notice the grenade. Then a turn to kneel. I would allow a DX check to grab the grenade at the same turn, then throw it away on next.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Kaspar

Turn 2: Ready with two hands to pull the pin.

Originally Posted by johndallman

High-Tech, p. 190, has the description of using grenades. It is possible to hold the arming handle down while gripping the grenade, so that the fuse timing does not start until it is thrown.

You two have any thoughts on the idea of 1-handed grenade arming?

IE let' say someone is holding a pistol in their left hand, so they hug the grenade in the left elbow or left armpit to keep it immobile while they pull the pin.

you might also do this if kneeling/crouching by stepping lightly on the grenade (maybe not your full weight, would that set it off?) to hold it in place while pulling (sandwich between your foot and the ground)

B147 "One Arm" disad says "You get -4 on tasks that are possible with one arm but that are usually executed with two" but I don't know if that would apply because unless you're using "step on the grenade to pin it" you would still actually require an arm to grip the object, you're just using elbow or armpit as a pseudo-hand.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Plane

You two have any thoughts on the idea of 1-handed grenade arming?

IE let' say someone is holding a pistol in their left hand, .

1. Learn Fast Draw(Pistol)
2. Holster pistol
3 Arm and throw grenade the right way
4. Fast Draw Pistol. On a successful roll you can use it on the same Turn.

Schemes for holding the pistol in the off-hand make it Unready anyway.

For persons with the One Arm Disad, don't mess about with grenades.