Question about information spells

[Bullettop]

So, a little confused about information spells. On B241 it says:

“Information spells are cast to gain knowledge. Some require you to touch the subject, while others function at a distance; see Long-Distance Modifiers (box) for range penalties. Spells intended to find things are at -1 per “known” item you choose to ignore in your search…”

So, what is the -1 penalty applied to? Skill roll, or range penalty, or something else? What is a known item exactly? Is it saying that if your surrounded by ponds but your looking for a River you get a -1 for every pond you ignore? Or is it saying that you get to deduct -1 from your range penalty for every item you already know about? Or is it saying something else entirely?

[Nikich]

Originally Posted by Bullettop

So, a little confused about information spells. On B241 it says:

“Information spells are cast to gain knowledge. Some require you to touch the subject, while others function at a distance; see Long-Distance Modifiers (box) for range penalties. Spells intended to find things are at -1 per “known” item you choose to ignore in your search…”

So, what is the -1 penalty applied to? Skill roll, or range penalty, or something else? What is a known item exactly? Is it saying that if your surrounded by ponds but your looking for a River you get a -1 for every pond you ignore? Or is it saying that you get to deduct -1 from your range penalty for every item you already know about? Or is it saying something else entirely?

1) The penalty applies to a skill roll.
2) "Spells intend-ed to find things are at -1 per “known” item you choose to ignore in yoursearch; it takes some concentration to bypass your canteen when casting Seek Water in the desert." ( Magic p.13 ). So, as you see in the example, you can bypass any known thing, if the thing can be a target for the search spell.

[Bullettop]

Thank you, that clears things up a lot. So Information spells that find something suffer both range penalties and “known” item penalties?

[Nikich]

Originally Posted by Bullettop

Thank you, that clears things up a lot. So Information spells that find something suffer both range penalties and “known” item penalties?

Yes, they do.

[Bullettop]

Awesome, thanx for clear that up.

[Nikich]

Originally Posted by Bullettop

Awesome, thanx for clear that up.

Glad to be helpful.

[transmetahuman]

Seek spells find the nearest thing that fits your criteria. The known item penalty only applies to things closer than the nearest unknown one - and only if you want it to. Yu could use a Seek Water spell to find your own canteen that you know is around here somewhere, if you like.

[ravenfish]

Originally Posted by transmetahuman

The known item penalty only applies to things closer than the nearest unknown one - and only if you want it to. Yu could use a Seek Water spell to find your own canteen that you know is around here somewhere, if you like.

Although, if you don't know where your unknown item is, you can exclude things that turn out to be farther away. If you're not sure which side of the river you left your canteen, you can choose to exclude the river, so, if your canteen turns out to be farther away, you don't waste the spell detecting the river and have to recast. If your choose to exclude the river, and the canteen is actually on this side (and therefore is the closest water, and would be detected by default), you still take the penalty- such is life.

[whswhs]

In the case of the canteen, if I were the GM, I might allow you to say, "I'm only looking for the water in my canteen," and then decide on a penalty based on the number of bodies of water closer than your canteen, and apply that, without telling you what it was. So then there might be a -4 penalty for range AND a -3 penalty for nearer bodies of water, total -7, reducing your effective skill from 12 to 5, and when you rolled a 6, I'd tell you, "No, you don't detect anything like that." And then you'd at least have negative information.

That's not exactly what the rules as written say, but it seems like a fair extrapolation from them; I don't see an obvious downside.

[Anthony]

Note that some information spells don't seek the nearest example, and thus might not sensibly exclude things at all (e.g. Predict Weather) or exclusion works in some other way (Sense Foes presumably lets you exclude a known foe in the area).