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Old 01-13-2018, 10:09 AM   #10
tbeard1999
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
Default Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by FJCestero View Post
I'd say that the interactions that tbeard1999 uses to justify Hold Fire overlook that all of that is 'baked into' the rules. They're *supposed* to work that way and if a unit can 'interrupt' and fire on any enemy the moment they come into range then just exactly how are we to simulate a GEV doing hit-n-runs on a Missile Tank?

Yes, the You-Go-I-Go nature of Ogre introduces artificialities as tbeard1999 rightly points out. However, it's the only way to keep certain realistic tactics (hit and run with GEVs) without making the game really complicated.

That said, I could see Hold Fire or 'interrupt' rules for, say, fixed defenses: gun bunkers and fortresses that supplement howitzers in the back. There might be a place in OGRE for fixed defenses that don't open a 17 hex gap in your line when taken out. But to do that, they need shorter range, and so that their not easy meat they'd need to attack at the same time. This can be justified as them having huge magazines to shoot from. So imagine a 4/3 D4 Gun Bunker that can interrupt fire at any enemy in range. Just a suggestion.

Also, what did you have in mind for Hold Fire rules? A simple -1 on the CRT with mutual destruction being very possible, seems the simplest idea, not have to remember if you moved, etc.
Well, remember that the Hold Fire is NOT an "interrupt". The GEVs will get to fire, but so will the target (if it was eligible to fire in last turn and didn't do so).

The question is "when are the Hold Fire results applied". There are 4 options:

1. Applied first. This is simplest, but may swing too much in favor of the defender. If you took this option, I'd definitely impose the -1 modifier to discourage gratuitous use of Hold Fire.

2. Simultaneously. This is my preference. No modifier is necessary to discourage gratuitous Hold Fires. A player would not select Hold Fire if he could shoot at the target in his turn. If you still want to encourage the attackers, you could apply the -1.

3. Alternate. An interesting notion - let hold fire unit(s) fire at one target. Then let the phasing player fire at 1 target. Alternate. This is slower but could be interesting.

4. Apply at the end. No real point in taking this option. You might as well just let the nonmoving stand shoot in its next combat phase.

The Ogre/GEV game system was devised for Ogre - Hold Fire in that kind of game is a needless flourish in my opinion. (And playtesting the first edition revealed that GEV second movement needed to be reduced and the heavy tank movement needed to be increased).

But when you have lots of non-Ogre units on both sides, the normal sequence can produce artificial results.

Now please understand that I (as I said) I consider both Ogre and GEV to be as nearly perfect as wargames can be. But modding wargames is an ancient and integral part of the hobby. As always, your mileage may vary.

Last edited by tbeard1999; 01-13-2018 at 12:42 PM.
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