Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > The Fantasy Trip

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-03-2018, 02:35 PM   #11
Kirk
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Default Re: Tied AdjDX and Initiative

Though I hate changing rules on a great game, except where needed, Option 4 is probably what I would choose, as the rule change is primarily to speed the combat by avoiding too many tie-breaking roll offs. We already play that if someone wins a tie they can still delay their action, but we are allowed to deride them for wasting everyone's time by going through the die roll procedure anyway when they already knew they wanted to delay, or should have known.
Kirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2018, 06:15 AM   #12
RobW
 
RobW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Default Re: Tied AdjDX and Initiative

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Also, I don't think I like that if it were based on initiative, then an entire side would go first versus opponents of the same DX.
Yes that does seem a little unfair. Maybe action among the tied DX figures could alternate between sides, so one figure on the side with initiative acts first, then a figure on the other side, repeat?
RobW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2018, 07:11 AM   #13
Kirk
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Default Re: Tied AdjDX and Initiative

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobW View Post
Yes that does seem a little unfair. Maybe action among the tied DX figures could alternate between sides, so one figure on the side with initiative acts first, then a figure on the other side, repeat?
I see symmetry and functional issues with that approach. Say there are 6 enemy and 2 PCs that are all tied (for illustration purposes). Alternating effectively means the 2 PCs go very early in what normally would not be so if ties were rolled off.

Also, since this is an RPG, each PC has his own objectives. One wouldn't know who gets to go first/last amongst the PCs when alternating sides, as well.
Kirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2018, 11:17 PM   #14
Helborn
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Default Re: Tied AdjDX and Initiative

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk View Post
I see symmetry and functional issues with that approach. Say there are 6 enemy and 2 PCs that are all tied (for illustration purposes). Alternating effectively means the 2 PCs go very early in what normally would not be so if ties were rolled off.

Movement is all of one side at a time. There is no alternating between figures on different sides. With initiative why should combat be any different? This is ONLY for those who have identical AdjDX. TFT has been about using speedy but fun resolutions to combat. I think this adds to both.
__________________
Helborn
Helborn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 12:21 AM   #15
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Tied AdjDX and Initiative

Not to be argumentative, but just my opinion FWIW:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helborn View Post
Movement is all of one side at a time. There is no alternating between figures on different sides. With initiative why should combat be any different? This is ONLY for those who have identical AdjDX.
To me there are two things about this proposal that don't make sense and seem weird/gamey to me:

* I think it makes sense that people of the same adjDX should not have a predictable sequence of who goes first, and I don't think it really makes sense that initiative would affect that.

* Even if I did think it made sense for initiative to affect attack order, it would be weird that it only affects people with equal adjDX, of which there is an unpredictable number. Particularly if the GM has been lazy for some encounter and you have a lot of people with the same adjDX, it seems weird that only in that situation would initiative be having an effect on combat performance, but not for people with different adjDX.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Helborn View Post
TFT has been about using speedy but fun resolutions to combat. I think this adds to both.
In contrast, to me, TFT has been about a RPG with an interesting tactical combat system where the rules make sense. That's the reason I chose TFT over other RPGs. And yes, it is fun and easy to learn and use.

Removing the die roll to see who acts first with equal adjDX doesn't seem to materially add speed, and to me the uncertainty is more fun, partly because it is uncertain, and partly because it makes sense to me that it is uncertain.
Skarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 07:28 AM   #16
Nils_Lindeberg
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: Tied AdjDX and Initiative

The initiative winner decides is the easiest rule. And it only feels strange when there are a lot of cannon fodder trops on one side and they all go before the enemy or all go after. Could make a huge difference. Otherwise it is no stranger that a DX12 always go before a DX11.

When it is a large clash of troops, then I think it is even more reasonable to use the initiative that is decided by the best leader. If it is a really big battle, you will probably have group leaders and then there will be many different initiative rolls, so then it evens out more, but still the best led army will win out if everything else is equal, including DX.

Simple rules are best. One sentence, no exceptions; "The winner of the initiative roll makes his side take actions first in the event of similar adjDX."
Nils_Lindeberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2018, 07:43 PM   #17
red2
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Default Re: Tied AdjDX and Initiative

I am clearly in the minority here but I would like to suggest making things MORE complicated. I like the idea of having some randomness in the order in which players act in the action phase, but of course those with higher adj dx should have an advantage. Maybe this:

Players act in order of adjusted adjusted dexterity, where your adjusted adjusted dexterity is the sum of your adjusted dexterity plus the result of a single die roll. So each player would roll a die at the end of each movement phase to determine their adjusted adjusted dexterity for that turn. To hit rolls would still be based on adjusted dexterity (not adjusted adjusted dexterity which is only used to determine order of actions).

Example: A, B, C, and D are in combat and are able to act during the action phase. Their adjusted dexterities are 16, 12, 12, and 9. Each rolls a die and the results are 1, 6, 2, and 5, making their adjusted adjusted dexteritiez 17, 18, 14, and 14. So B acts first, followed by A. C and D are tied, so their order of action is determined by another die roll (odd for C, even for D, or something similar).
red2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2018, 09:41 PM   #18
JLV
 
JLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Arizona
Default Re: Tied AdjDX and Initiative

I actually like this idea, in that sometimes the guy with the highest DX DOES wind up missing going first due to some outside circumstance (he needed to adjust his jockstrap, or something). Though, as you say, it complicates things and will slow a turn (the more figures, the slower).
JLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2018, 09:45 PM   #19
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Tied AdjDX and Initiative

Quote:
Originally Posted by red2 View Post
I am clearly in the minority here but I would like to suggest making things MORE complicated. I like the idea of having some randomness in the order in which players act in the action phase, but of course those with higher adj dx should have an advantage. Maybe this:

Players act in order of adjusted adjusted dexterity, where your adjusted adjusted dexterity is the sum of your adjusted dexterity plus the result of a single die roll. So each player would roll a die at the end of each movement phase to determine their adjusted adjusted dexterity for that turn. To hit rolls would still be based on adjusted dexterity (not adjusted adjusted dexterity which is only used to determine order of actions).

Example: A, B, C, and D are in combat and are able to act during the action phase. Their adjusted dexterities are 16, 12, 12, and 9. Each rolls a die and the results are 1, 6, 2, and 5, making their adjusted adjusted dexteritiez 17, 18, 14, and 14. So B acts first, followed by A. C and D are tied, so their order of action is determined by another die roll (odd for C, even for D, or something similar).
Personally, this is more the sort of thing I like. It adds complexity and will take a little longer to play, but it adds a lot of uncertainty / unpredictability, which to me would add excitement, tension, and immersion.

Of course, it would also have a large effect on balance, in the sense that it would mean lower-adjDX figures would often go before higher-adjDX ones, which otherwise wouldn't happen. i.e. it would reduce the importance of adjDX somewhat, and also even the odds somewhat between more experienced people and less experienced people. (I think in general those are interesting effects, though be aware it might tend to reduce the life expectancy of more experienced characters.)

Clearly some people would like this but others would not, just like the other suggestion. Seems to me like "matter of taste" options for something that isn't broken.
Skarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2018, 10:02 PM   #20
JLV
 
JLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Arizona
Default Re: Tied AdjDX and Initiative

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Clearly some people would like this but others would not, just like the other suggestion. Seems to me like "matter of taste" options for something that isn't broken.
And that's pretty much it in a nutshell. Indeed, I consider most of these "I think this should be done THIS way" threads as a source for possibly useful ideas, as opposed to serious threads demanding an important change to the rules. In other words -- a potential source of good ideas, not a place to find a definitive rule change.
JLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
house rules, initiative

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.