Medieval Venitain Empire as Setting?

[L.J.Steele]

I'm reading Roger Crowley's City of Fortune and being reminded again that the Eastern Med. and Aegean between say fall of Constantinople during the 4th Crusade to the arrival of the Black Death is a great campaign setting. Venetians trying to build an empire vs the Orthodox Greek inhabitants. Genoese and Pisan pirates fighting for market share. Not to mention the Islamic push-back against what's left of the Crusader states, the Norman Kingdom of Sicily, and a bunch of other cool stuff.

Surely somebody has already set a game there? Published resources? (I had pitched a Pirates of the Med book to White Wolf back when Dark Ages Vampire was still a thing, but the line folded before we got past the pitch stage.)

[Astromancer]

I don't know of a full length treatment of the subject for RPGs. I think you'll find a GURPS PDF on Venice in Warehouse 23. And the books on the Middle Ages and the Arabian Nights should help. Also read all the books on Mediterranean history by Julian Norwhich. He's a narrative historian. His books are a accurate, detailed, and fun to read. His one volume history of Venice is the goto. His histories of Byzantium and the Mediterranean will also help and delight you.

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

I think you'll find a GURPS PDF on Venice in Warehouse 23.

Buy early and often!

That said, it does focus on the Renaissance, with treatment of most of the Middle Ages presented as background, though there is a map of the Venetian "empire" (that is, the network of port territories; the Venetians never really went in for a terrestrial empire until the Renaissance was well under way).

[jason taylor]

Daily Life in Renaissance Italy by Elizabeth and Thomas Cohen. It is a Juvy like all the Greenwood Presses but it is a very good one, and fit for adults as well. The information is easily digested and it gives an idea of the tangled subtleties.

Gunpowder and Galleys by John Guilmartin. Guilmartin is the go-to guy for galley warfare and you cannot have Venice without Galleys.

Venice: A City, A Republic, An Empire by Aluise Zorzi. Has splendid artwork and the advantage of being written by a native.

Venice: Pure City by Peter Ackroyd (how he picked that name I don't know, as Venice had many grand qualities but they do not include purity.

Venice: A New History, by Thomas Madden

You are picking a good setting because much of life depended on gameworthy situations, like one-upmanship, family rivalry (vendettas were not as uncommon in Venice but rivalry certainly was there), and so on. As well as frontier adventure, warfare, intrigue, what not.

[jason taylor]

This looks like a good one and just had a markdown. I haven't read it yet:

https://www.amazon.com/Venices-Secre...s%2C225&sr=8-1

[L.J.Steele]

As an aside, when I was working on _Town_ for the Cumberland Press book, I recall wondering how the heck medieval Venice handled fresh water, particularly in the periods where it didn't have much hinterland.

There is an aquafer, but they don't have the tech to tap it. There are wells mentioned. I assume water gets brought in from the mainland rivers when possible.

Anyone seen a good discussion of the logistics of feeding and watering Venice from, say 11C to end of 15C?

[L.J.Steele]

My current thought is that the Venetians are the bad guys -- the PCs are a Genoese sponsored (and may include some Genoese) band of merchant venturers -- unkind people might say freebooters, opportunists, raiders, or pirates.

Game starts a few years into the aftermath of the Fourth Crusade, when Venice and the Crusaders are trying to carve up the Aegean and Eastern Med. The Byzantine Empire is in a shambles. The Pope is still right ****** at Venice and the Crusaders. Genoa, Pisa, and Amalfi just got shut out of the Byzantine trading ports and aren't taking that lying down. The Byzantines on the ground aren't thrilled about their new colonial masters and might accept backing from outside allies.

Magic -- low magic, at best -- I'm pondering ancient Greek/Turkish folklore. Critters that had been kept down by the Greek Orthodox church now free to prey in the chaos. No spell casters, but PCs might have or be able to develop supernatural abilities.

Haven't decided on system yet. I'm pondering a hack of Blades in the Dark. I like the idea of blending individual missions with a larger goal of building their trading house. Abstract economic mechanics, but something that lets the PCs take big risks for profits. Relatively fast combat mechanics. Something ideally that could handle small ship combats.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by L.J.Steele

As an aside, when I was working on _Town_ for the Cumberland Press book, I recall wondering how the heck medieval Venice handled fresh water, particularly in the periods where it didn't have much hinterland.

There is an aquafer, but they don't have the tech to tap it. There are wells mentioned. I assume water gets brought in from the mainland rivers when possible.

Anyone seen a good discussion of the logistics of feeding and watering Venice from, say 11C to end of 15C?

I do remember that wells were social spots, like coffeehouses.

[thrash]

Originally Posted by L.J.Steele

Anyone seen a good discussion of the logistics of feeding and watering Venice from, say 11C to end of 15C?

Not sure how far back they go, but the ubiquitous courtyards (piazzi? Edit: campi) are rain-water collection and filtration systems. The well in the center accesses a cistern. Let's see -- try this.

[L.J.Steele]

Originally Posted by thrash

Not sure how far back they go, but the ubiquitous courtyards (piazzi? Edit: campi) are rain-water collection and filtration systems. The well in the center accesses a cistern. Let's see -- try this.

I wasn't sure how well those could handle the entire city's needs, but supplement with some boats bringing in fresh water from the mainland (there are references to them, but I don't have the name to hand) maybe. I expect there was concern during droughts.