01-13-2018, 03:15 PM | #281 | |
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
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Re: Attribute levels in Rick's Campaign.
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Now, I would agree that TFT as written doesn't do well with 60+ point characters. Even my blasphemous and sinister d20 mechanic would break down at that point. A game that plausibly allows characters that powerful will require an opposed mechanic of some kind to work well. Someone - was it you - told that they had a system sorta like the Runequest the resistance table. Such a system would probably help in a super powered TFT game. I now see your point about attribute bloat. |
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01-13-2018, 03:28 PM | #282 | |
Join Date: Jan 2018
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Re: The Fantasy Trip
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TFT dies in 1981 and you have your 55 point PC it will take 2 and a half years to get him to 60, a further 5 more years to get him to 65 and 10 more to get to 70. So now it is 1998 Joe Hartley starts Brainiac.com, you have a 70 point character now on that current pace you would get to 75 this year 2018. That is if he didn't get killed, if you played every week without any breaks and you didn't fudge anything. That is a lot of if's. Now your GM may have given a lot of discretionary EP but most EP still comes from Combat, good Roleplaying, Saving rolls. Rick just corrected me on this site that it was 60 not 80 and Ty Beard also piped in that he never had a character over 50, and I know most of the other on the site had lower numbers than that with maybe on near 50. So the preponderance of evidence suggests that it is really hard to get a character to that high of level. The fact that their are super strong guys around on earth doesn't mean everybody can be, the guy on Game of Thrones is actually a strong man (has competed) that doesn't mean I can work up to that level. He is a statistical anomaly. My problem with your argument is that if one character somehow got to a high level that it breaks the entire game. Move the campaign away from him or his area, split the party, where super tough guy goes nothing happens eventually he will get the hint. 99% of all PC and Non PC characters are under 45 attributes. If one player gets a character up to a level like what you are talking about a few things usually happen the player retires (maybe becoming a NPC Sponsor) because there are no challenges, the player becomes a political broker or fief holder so his attributes don't matter as much anymore or if he is obnoxious the GM takes care of him (rare wasting disease, bad mushrooms, Mnoren assassin and the like) and that is the end of that. |
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01-13-2018, 03:38 PM | #283 | |
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Arizona
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Re: Attribute levels in Rick's Campaign.
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And boy-howdy, are you right about the lethality of TFT without some kind of readily available healing -- lots and LOTS of healing potions (a la Diablo/Diablo II), or a simple (and not tremendously effective) healing spell help a lot, but with the healing spell, you're really just robbing Peter to pay Paul -- it costs ST to cast the spell, and is effectively just shifting a ST point or two to another character. It's a viable tactic, but it suffers from quickly diminishing returns. Especially if you want your Wizard to do anything else! ;-) Of course you could always take another leaf from Diablo, etc., and add in "fatigue recovery potions" (as opposed to Mana Potions) that allow "fatigue" ST to be recovered more quickly... |
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01-13-2018, 04:00 PM | #284 | |||
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Arizona
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Re: The Fantasy Trip
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Most importantly, you're disregarding my explanation that Attribute Bloat has insidious effects long before you reach the 90-point wonder. The character essentially becomes a human threshing machine when his DX hits roughly 18, and his ST just continues to decrease his vulnerability as he increases it beyond 18 (which is easier to do since you can effectively stop increasing your DX at about 18-24), while his IQ grows to grotesque proportions as he plumps it up to gain new talents and/or spells. Eventually you would think his 40-pound head would wobble even on his massively thewed neck... I'm wondering if some sort of sliding experience scale based on the current attribute point total of EACH ATTRIBUTE might not go a long way to addressing some of this. Perhaps each point of ST gain should predicated on the existing total of unadjusted ST for that character -- something along the lines of "it costs 100XP TIMES THE NEW UNADJUSTED ST LEVEL to increase ST by 1. Thus, if your ST is 8 and you want to go to 9, it'll cost you 900 XP, while if your ST is 17 and you want to go to 18, it's gonna cost 1800 XP (those numbers are not a "suggestion" btw, instead merely being thrown out to explain the theoretical process) -- similar numbers would apply for DX and IQ. That doesn't solve the fact that DX effectively tops out at roughly 18 (or at best, let's say 24, if you want to wear Plate Armor and carry a shield), whereas the ST and IQ attributes are essentially unlimited in any way, but at least it slows attribute bloat to the point where it takes longer to get to the point of skewing the system. (Edited to add: And naturally, you could use some sort of logarithmic scale here too, instead of the purely arithmetic one I used above. Say, doubling the cost for each ST point gained. Thus, you might pay 900 to get ST 9 (100 x the desired new ST level) while you would pay 2000 to get to ST 10 (200 x the desired new ST level) and 4800 to get to ST 12 (400 x the desired new ST level), and so on. Again, numbers are used solely for illustrative purposes and do not constitute a "suggestion" or "recommendation." Those numbers are probably too extreme in any case, but you get the point.) Last edited by JLV; 01-13-2018 at 04:22 PM. |
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01-13-2018, 04:38 PM | #285 | |
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Arizona
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Re: The Fantasy Trip
I just want to move this over from the other thread so that people can think about this too:
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01-13-2018, 04:57 PM | #286 |
President and EIC
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Re: The Fantasy Trip
I love the idea of using 54mm figures for a convention demo. Looking on eBay I found this guy:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/TIN-HISTORY...-/262905823176 How do you suppose he uses that weapon combo? Throws one spear, fights with the other one-handed? Shield is very passive in that case. Shield is for emergencies in case his second spear gets cut up? Hm. |
01-13-2018, 05:07 PM | #287 | ||
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Arizona
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Re: The Fantasy Trip
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Last edited by JLV; 01-13-2018 at 05:13 PM. |
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01-13-2018, 11:25 PM | #288 | |
Join Date: Jan 2018
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Re: The Fantasy Trip
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You can also use the spear to lever the other one, similar to some Largo Mano techniques. I have always suspected this might have accounted for some of the speed of Zulu spear play. |
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01-13-2018, 11:34 PM | #289 |
Join Date: Jan 2018
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Re: The Fantasy Trip
[QUOTE=JLV;2149984]Well, that's our disconnect right there. We play a LOT more frequently than that when I have a group -- usually the minimum is every weekend for multiple hours, and frequently one or more week-nights as well. That blows your theoretical numbers right out of the water from the start -- given that level of frequency, topping 1000 XP per week is not unlikely, which takes your "time" issue down to much more likely levels. Even assuming people take a month off (in the military you get 30 days of leave per year -- and if you accumulate too much, the higher-ups get cranky about it since it makes it look as if they are denying you leave...), you're still easily topping 30,000 XP per year, and probably getting closer to 45,000 to 50,000.
Okay sorry for saying argument, I am just trying to have an civilized discussion here. Still to your point at 1000 EP/week still breaks down 56-60 takes a year, 61-65 takes 2 years, 66-70 takes 4 years, 71-75 takes 8, 76-80 takes 16 years. Or 31 years to get to 80 if you play the same character each and every adventure. If you have someone who put that kind of time in then as long as they still fit in the campaign then great. |
01-13-2018, 11:55 PM | #290 |
Join Date: Jan 2018
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Re: The Fantasy Trip
[QUOTE=JLV;2149984]
Killing off a player character as a "reward" for exceptional play seems...bad...somehow, to me. If the player wants to continue to play, he or she should be allowed to. Unless one of the house rules is that "no Player Character can ever surpass 45 points" or something. In which case the reverse effect takes place and after increasing by 13 points, the game is essentially over -- they can never improve, never gain new talents or spells, etc. Most importantly, you're disregarding my explanation that Attribute Bloat has insidious effects long before you reach the 90-point wonder. The character essentially becomes a human threshing machine when his DX hits roughly 18, and his ST just continues to decrease his vulnerability as he increases it beyond 18 (which is easier to do since you can effectively stop increasing your DX at about 18-24), while his IQ grows to grotesque proportions as he plumps it up to gain new talents and/or spells. Eventually you would think his 40-pound head would wobble even on his massively thewed neck... I didn't say kill a character for exceptional play but I have seen disruptive higher level PCs (45+) get sanctioned by the GM usually after several warnings. I do agree to some extent about Fritz the Fearless needing a 20 IQ for his human tank or Sven the Mage with 25 ST being my desired result but I can deal with that. As for becoming invulnerable with 20+ DX and 20+ ST even using the house rule that reduce charge damage to one extra die instead of Double Damage (David O Miller I believe I don't want to take credit for something not my own), charges hit before anything else... Also several times my PC have been surrounded usually by orcs and goblins but occasionally by the really bad stuff (Vampire Family outing still make my spine tingle we died but it was hilarious) this leaves a lot of die rolls to overcome armor so unless they have armor stopping 12 plus hits then it seems more stylistic than game mechanic. I leave it at that we can always agree to disagree. Again I in no way meant to insult you or come of as brusque it might just be my way of typing. |
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in the labyrinth, melee, roleplaying, the fantasy trip, wizard |
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