Pyramid #3/21. Console Cowboys / Netrunning / Semi-Cinematic Hacking - Page 4

Zarmonic · 05-04-2014, 11:16 AM

Hey,

I found this thread seeking clarification about these hacking rules.

Regarding ICE and Search, there is what seems to me, a contradiction in the description for ICE. it states that "ICE doesn’t prevent the protected object from being found in a Search". OK. Then it goes on to explain that if said object is protected by it's own layer of ICE, that ICE would have to be penetrated before it can be searched. So I'm left to conclude that Search can penetrate ICE but ONLY ONE layer of ICE. Is that right?

I'm considering tweaking the rules to say that a Search can't penetrate any ICE at all. It's what makes sense to me. Aside from whatever logic there is to that, it would just help with the dramatic element. Imagine the situation where a hacker's contacts assure him that the data he needs is on a particular system, but has no way of knowing for sure until he breaks in.

I'm just writing in to see if anyone has any further thoughts.

vicky_molokh · 05-04-2014, 11:43 AM

I think the idea is that you can find an item that is behind ICE (not Stealth!), but can't look for stuff inside this item.

Zarmonic · 05-04-2014, 01:13 PM

Well, it's just something that doesn't seem to be very well defined. What would make the difference between an 'item' and 'stuff' inside the item? Is the system the hacker needs to penetrate not just a bigger 'item' with more 'stuff' inside?

Like I said, I'm just going to start coming up with my own rules for this sort of thing anyway. I just thought I'd point it out in case they ever do make an official 4e Cyberpunk book.

CousinX · 05-04-2014, 07:18 PM

Think about it like firewalls and encryption. You can find an external (WAN) IP even if it's firewalled, but you can't search for a specific computer on the LAN that's being protected by the firewall. If you then breach the uplink's firewall, you can search for a specific computer (by LAN IP) on the internal network, but you can't search the computer's hard drive for a specific file without breaching the computer's firewall. If you get through that, you can finally search for an individual file on the computer's hard drive, but if the file is encrypted (it's own layer of ICE), you can't search for a string inside the file without breaking the encryption.

Zarmonic · 05-04-2014, 08:05 PM

OK you know what? That makes total sense. It's what I would have thought but I misunderstood the text. Sorry, I swear I read the descriptions 10 times over the course of the weekend so I don't know what's up with me.

Thanks for getting back and taking the time to explain. Also thanks for writing that article up in the first place. Trying to run a game you'd call of the Cyberpunk genre without rules such as those would be like running a fantasy game without a magic system.

Hoping to try it out soon.

05-04-2014, 11:16 AM	#31
Zarmonic Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Seattle, WA	Re: Pyramid #3/21. Console Cowboys / Netrunning / Semi-Cinematic Hacking Hey, I found this thread seeking clarification about these hacking rules. Regarding ICE and Search, there is what seems to me, a contradiction in the description for ICE. it states that "ICE doesn’t prevent the protected object from being found in a Search". OK. Then it goes on to explain that if said object is protected by it's own layer of ICE, that ICE would have to be penetrated before it can be searched. So I'm left to conclude that Search can penetrate ICE but ONLY ONE layer of ICE. Is that right? I'm considering tweaking the rules to say that a Search can't penetrate any ICE at all. It's what makes sense to me. Aside from whatever logic there is to that, it would just help with the dramatic element. Imagine the situation where a hacker's contacts assure him that the data he needs is on a particular system, but has no way of knowing for sure until he breaks in. I'm just writing in to see if anyone has any further thoughts.

05-04-2014, 11:43 AM	#32
vicky_molokh GURPS FAQ Keeper Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kyïv, Ukraine	Re: Pyramid #3/21. Console Cowboys / Netrunning / Semi-Cinematic Hacking I think the idea is that you can find an item that is behind ICE (not Stealth!), but can't look for stuff inside this item. __________________ Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ and uFAQ Keeper

05-04-2014, 01:13 PM	#33
Zarmonic Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Seattle, WA	Re: Pyramid #3/21. Console Cowboys / Netrunning / Semi-Cinematic Hacking Well, it's just something that doesn't seem to be very well defined. What would make the difference between an 'item' and 'stuff' inside the item? Is the system the hacker needs to penetrate not just a bigger 'item' with more 'stuff' inside? Like I said, I'm just going to start coming up with my own rules for this sort of thing anyway. I just thought I'd point it out in case they ever do make an official 4e Cyberpunk book.

05-04-2014, 07:18 PM	#34
CousinX Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Shangri-La	Re: Pyramid #3/21. Console Cowboys / Netrunning / Semi-Cinematic Hacking Think about it like firewalls and encryption. You can find an external (WAN) IP even if it's firewalled, but you can't search for a specific computer on the LAN that's being protected by the firewall. If you then breach the uplink's firewall, you can search for a specific computer (by LAN IP) on the internal network, but you can't search the computer's hard drive for a specific file without breaching the computer's firewall. If you get through that, you can finally search for an individual file on the computer's hard drive, but if the file is encrypted (it's own layer of ICE), you can't search for a string inside the file without breaking the encryption. __________________ Current project: HMACE, Heavy Metal Album Cover Evil. Past projects: The Fortress of Xie'e Wu Xing, Mythic Japan. GURPS StarCraft, Alien Bugs vs. Space Marines

05-04-2014, 08:05 PM	#35
Zarmonic Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Seattle, WA	Re: Pyramid #3/21. Console Cowboys / Netrunning / Semi-Cinematic Hacking OK you know what? That makes total sense. It's what I would have thought but I misunderstood the text. Sorry, I swear I read the descriptions 10 times over the course of the weekend so I don't know what's up with me. Thanks for getting back and taking the time to explain. Also thanks for writing that article up in the first place. Trying to run a game you'd call of the Cyberpunk genre without rules such as those would be like running a fantasy game without a magic system. Hoping to try it out soon.