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Old 06-24-2018, 06:20 AM   #21
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Unverifiable Magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
Hi David,
I was going to give you feedback, but I'm afraid that I don't understand the system well enough to do so. Could you add some more details, and maybe give an example or two?

The improved dice go d8, d12, d20. d20 is amazing, if you want to roll a 1, there is a 75% chance of getting exactly what you want. Wouldn't d8, d10, d12, d14, d16 work better? (d14 and d16 can be found, I have several.). I'm not sure what the cost is for rolling a d20 rather than a d8.

Can you do multiple effects on the same roll? (Can you roll a d6, d8 and d12 at the same time?)

Warm regards, Rick.
Bah! Only perfect solids are dice!

Crom does not like these... things!

Seriously though, that's a good point, even if Crom doesn't like those so-called dice, they should still be used. Crom supposes...
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Old 06-25-2018, 04:56 AM   #22
David Bofinger
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sydney, Australia
Default Re: Unverifiable Magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
Could you add some more details
I will add details and work out the numbers if people think this is a worthwhile idea. If everyone says, "I would never use that," I'll probably just let it die.

Quote:
maybe give an example or two?
A band of soldiers are about to charge the rude fortifications of their religious enemy. It's a difficult and dangerous mission but they are heartened by the presence of the Lady Melisende, widely recognised as a living saint. Melisende considers herself a follower of Saint Antoine d'Arcachon, who protects those on the Lord's work and eases their path through obstacles. Her aspects (a subset of those she believes he has) are be missed by ranged attacks, minimisation of damage from melee attacks, noticing of hidden enemies, protection against disease, athletics and horses.

Melisende has already been protecting the group against disease long-term, and has blessed the eyesight of the scout. The disease bonus D8 costs 3, tripled because she applied it to 2+0 people, and the noticing of enemies bonus D12 costs 4. She decides to hang onto the ambush detector just in case and let the band's own immune systems worry about disease.

Bringing forth her silver cross she asks Saint Antoine to ask God to protect them from arrows. She rolls four dice for 16 points of power and subtracts 4 already committed to the ambush bonus to leave 12. She commits 9 of that to giving 2+0 people D8 protection against arrows, incurring 9 obligation.

As the assault reaches the walls she shouts out, "Aid them, Saint Antoine, and let them not be hurt!" Melisende collapses all her effects, rolls 4 dice and gets 15. She gives 2+0 of the band a D8 bonus to Athletics to help them climb quickly costing 3x1=3, and the 1+0 at the tops of the ladders she gives a D12 bonus against melee attacks for 2x2x3=12, for another 15 obligation.

Version Two of this story: Melisende suffers from schizophrenia.

Version Three of this story: Melisende has never eaten so well, and has almost started to believe someone really is watching out for her.

Quote:
The improved dice go d8, d12, d20. d20 is amazing, if you want to roll a 1, there is a 75% chance of getting exactly what you want. Wouldn't d8, d10, d12, d14, d16 work better?
That was in fact my first plan. But my intuition underestimated how fast the benefits drop off.
  • D6: mean 3.5
  • D8: mean 2.88, i.e. 0.63 better than D6
  • D10: mean 2.5, i.e. 1.0 better than D6, 0.37 better than D8
  • D12: mean 2.25, i.e. 1.25 less than D6, 0.63 better than D8
  • D20: mean 1.75, i.e. 1.75 better than D6, 0.5 less than D12
The gap between D12 and D20 is actually smaller than the gap between D6 and D8. I also considered a system where it cost 2 to buy a D8, 3 to buy a D10, 4 to buy a D12 and 6 to buy a D20.

Quote:
Can you do multiple effects on the same roll? (Can you roll a d6, d8 and d12 at the same time?)
I hadn't decided but I guess there's no reason you couldn't.
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Old 06-25-2018, 05:59 AM   #23
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Unverifiable Magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bofinger View Post
That was in fact my first plan. But my intuition underestimated how fast the benefits drop off.
  • D6: mean 3.5
  • D8: mean 2.88, i.e. 0.63 better than D6
  • D10: mean 2.5, i.e. 1.0 better than D6, 0.37 better than D8
  • D12: mean 2.25, i.e. 1.25 less than D6, 0.63 better than D8
  • D20: mean 1.75, i.e. 1.75 better than D6, 0.5 less than D12
The gap between D12 and D20 is actually smaller than the gap between D6 and D8. I also considered a system where it cost 2 to buy a D8, 3 to buy a D10, 4 to buy a D12 and 6 to buy a D20.
Have you analyzed the effects on criticals? If you roll 3d20 and anything over a 6 on each die counts as a 1, that's a much larger chance for a critical than 3d6.
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Old 06-25-2018, 06:16 AM   #24
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Unverifiable Magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by zot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bofinger View Post
That was in fact my first plan. But my intuition underestimated how fast the benefits drop off.
  • D6: mean 3.5
  • D8: mean 2.88, i.e. 0.63 better than D6
  • D10: mean 2.5, i.e. 1.0 better than D6, 0.37 better than D8
  • D12: mean 2.25, i.e. 1.25 less than D6, 0.63 better than D8
  • D20: mean 1.75, i.e. 1.75 better than D6, 0.5 less than D12
The gap between D12 and D20 is actually smaller than the gap between D6 and D8. I also considered a system where it cost 2 to buy a D8, 3 to buy a D10, 4 to buy a D12 and 6 to buy a D20.
Have you analyzed the effects on criticals? If you roll 3d20 and anything over a 6 on each die counts as a 1, that's a much larger chance for a critical than 3d6.
So off the top of my computer, these seem to be the chances for rolling all 1s or all 6s (i.e. ((sides-5) / sides)^3 * 100%):

d6: 0.46%
d8: 5.27%
d10: 12.5%
d12: 19.85%
d14: 26.57%
d16: 32.5%
d18: 37.67%
d20: 42.19%

It is a much smoother progression of you don't omit d10 and d14-d18.

Last edited by zot; 06-25-2018 at 06:17 AM. Reason: clarification
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Old 08-23-2018, 08:50 PM   #25
Anomylous
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: Inobvious Magic

Lot of potential here, for sure! I definitely see this as being linkable to the Priest/Theologian talents which, as many have noted, do next to nothing in the old RAW.

The single downside I can see, is the use of polyhedral dice, and that's purely a personal bias. One of the things that I originally liked about TFT, is that I could just raid the Risk set for dice - as a kid I had neither access to a FLGS, nor the credit card and Internet access to order online. But those restrictions are gone now, and I can buy fancy dice to my heart's content and my wallet's dismay...
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