Who's next? - Page 4

robkelk · 07-11-2008, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robkelk

Happy to help.

I don't suppose I could trade it for the ability to buy a copy of Superiors: Zadkiel, could I? (Before my next birthday, early this summer, that is... Or am I back in Blandine's side of the vale again?)

Ah, well... I suppose that Munchkin boardgame thingy counted as "something Horribly Unexpected".

<sigh>

Before this Christmas, at least? Pretty please?

Yamiblade · 07-11-2008, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William

So, technically, there might be a Grigori still sitting in Heaven somewhere, in Trauma for twenty millenia, not yet Outcast, still staring at his Heart, or a Grigori floating in Limbo, who isn't yet aware of his Choirmates' punishment. However, these angels would be MacGuffins, basically -- angels in such states rarely re-emerge. It's canon that angels know of no current Grigori for certain.

That seems correct. Hell, if I remember right they still have angels that have been in Trauma since the Rebellion.

Interesting image there:

Angel: Ugh. what happened?

Laurence : Good your up.

Angel: Who are you?

Laurence : I'm the Archangel of The Sword. Commander of the of Hosts armies.

Angel: What happened to Archangel Michael?

Laurence : Stepped down from the position of Commander awhile back.

Angel: Uriel?

Laurence : *points up* Recalled to Higher heaven

Angel: Eli?

Laurence : Somewhere on earth doing god knows what?

Angel: Beleth?

Laurence : Fell

Angel: Baal

Laurence : Fell

Angel: What about Dominic,Blandine,Novalis, Jordi, David, Gabriel, Asmodeus,Raphael, Jean,Yves, Metatron, Oannes, Kobal, Malaphas, Lucifer, Andrealphus, Janus and Saminga?

Laurence : Alive, Alive, Alive, Alive, Alive, Insane but alive, Fell, Dead,Alive, Alive, Dead, Dead, Fell, Fell, Supreme embodiment of evil, Fell, Alive and Fell.

Angel: What year is it!?

Laurence: The year of our lord 2008 AD.

Angel: Where are all the grigori?

Laurence: Banished. All of them. *whispers something along the lines of "maybe Janus should have handled this."*

Angel: One last question. What are you?

Laurence: (now slightly annoyed) I'm a Malakite.

Archangel Beth · 07-11-2008, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robkelk

Before this Christmas, at least? Pretty please?

Cross your fingers. I suspect I know what the state of things is, and... it's nothing I can elbowjoggle on.

Archangel Beth · 07-11-2008, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamiblade

That seems correct. Hell, if I remember right they still have angels that have been in Trauma since the Rebellion.

One of the fun bits of the SSO campaign I was running (and someday may try to run again, but my brainz, dey dribble owt mah earz) was the Grigori of Judgment we had. Perception 1... later raised to 2... In and out of Limbo so much that you wonder he wasn't more flexible. Had little issues like, "Wait, what do you mean all the dragons are gone?" and the like.

Much, much fun...

William · 07-11-2008, 10:45 PM

You know... I wonder if there have been any demons in Trauma since the Rebellion. Fell, ran to Earth... hmm, no, it wouldn't have had a Heart yet. Though I suppose the newly-crowned Demon Princes might have remembered some old Servitors that stood by them, and called for "reinforcements" in the early days of Hell... by... sending lots of Essence...

...to a demon that would have appeared on Earth before Lilith's jailbreak of the rest of the Horde...

...must ponder.

robkelk · 07-12-2008, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William

You know... I wonder if there have been any demons in Trauma since the Rebellion. Fell, ran to Earth... hmm, no, it wouldn't have had a Heart yet. Though I suppose the newly-crowned Demon Princes might have remembered some old Servitors that stood by them, and called for "reinforcements" in the early days of Hell... by... sending lots of Essence...

...to a demon that would have appeared on Earth before Lilith's jailbreak of the rest of the Horde...

...must ponder.

Hmmmmm... That could explain where Lilith got the idea for the breakout from, couldn't it?

Archangel Beth · 07-14-2008, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William

You know... I wonder if there have been any demons in Trauma since the Rebellion. Fell, ran to Earth...

Arguably possible, if there were angels with vessels at the time -- Falling doesn't strip those, so one might Fall, and instead of following (or being kicked after) Lucifer into Hell, if it descended to vessel and either hid out or was vessel-killed and dumped into Limbo...

However, this would imply that the Fallen were evicted from Point A in Heaven, and then arrived at Point B in Hell, and Point A was then somehow sealed. (Unless there's a One Way Funnel To Hell still somewhere in Heaven? That'd be a plot point anna half...)

It may actually be more tidy for GMs to assume that God, once Lucifer was kicked out, had to created a place for him to be kicked out to, and there was a certain amount of Divine Sweeping of the other Fallen into the dustpan of Hell, so to speak, which would mean that overlooked new-Fallen on Earth would be unlikely (except from Divine Intent (aka Divine I Meant To Do That)).

Since the one is metaphysically messy, and the other is quashing potential character designs for little reason, I suspect the details of the Fall in that regard are CDaU, and thus up to individual GMs. O:>

JCD · 07-22-2008, 10:31 PM

First, didn't GIN pretty much establish the existence and even resonance of the Grigori, or is that not considered canon? IIRC (and I don't have the book currently), they had a fairly detailed write up with a little fiction splash of an old man defending his g-g-g-g-g-g-g-g grandchild by dealing with a disturbance in the Symphony.

Secondly, what an excellent plot thread. Essence is being harvested en-masse by some secret group. Said group is mailing large doses of the stuff "to the Grigori", while a second group is harvesting brain-dead bodies to supply vessels for when some Grigori or another reaches critical mass and returns, though I don't recall if that is the actual mechanic.

On a slightly different note, are the books only being put into e23 when they become out of print in W23?

William · 07-23-2008, 09:02 AM

It is canon that Grigori exist, and that Heaven is fairly sure they do, with the numbers low enough that an extinction since last report is a believable possibility -- i.e., that there are very few survivors, and that no Grigori are in regular contact with Heaven.

Yes, GURPS In Nomine is canon regarding the description of the Grigori and Skulker Resonances.

No, brain-dead bodies aren't required for Grigori Vessels. As Heartless Outcasts, they enter Limbo when corporeally killed, and can thereafter accumulate Essence on their own, and create their own bodies. (The original version of INS/MV before the American translations used human corpses for Vessels, but very few angels use such things in the American version -- mainly only Kyriotates of Laurence, as a special case.)

JCD · 07-23-2008, 04:13 PM

Ah, I had forgotten that they could form their own vessels from Essence.

07-11-2008, 10:45 PM	#35
William Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Upper Peninsula of Michigan	Re: Who's next? You know... I wonder if there have been any demons in Trauma since the Rebellion. Fell, ran to Earth... hmm, no, it wouldn't have had a Heart yet. Though I suppose the newly-crowned Demon Princes might have remembered some old Servitors that stood by them, and called for "reinforcements" in the early days of Hell... by... sending lots of Essence... ...to a demon that would have appeared on Earth before Lilith's jailbreak of the rest of the Horde... ...must ponder.

07-22-2008, 10:31 PM	#38
JCD Join Date: May 2008 Location: Birthplace of the Worst Pizza on the Planet	Re: Who's next? First, didn't GIN pretty much establish the existence and even resonance of the Grigori, or is that not considered canon? IIRC (and I don't have the book currently), they had a fairly detailed write up with a little fiction splash of an old man defending his g-g-g-g-g-g-g-g grandchild by dealing with a disturbance in the Symphony. Secondly, what an excellent plot thread. Essence is being harvested en-masse by some secret group. Said group is mailing large doses of the stuff "to the Grigori", while a second group is harvesting brain-dead bodies to supply vessels for when some Grigori or another reaches critical mass and returns, though I don't recall if that is the actual mechanic. On a slightly different note, are the books only being put into e23 when they become out of print in W23?

07-23-2008, 09:02 AM	#39
William Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Upper Peninsula of Michigan	Re: Who's next? It is canon that Grigori exist, and that Heaven is fairly sure they do, with the numbers low enough that an extinction since last report is a believable possibility -- i.e., that there are very few survivors, and that no Grigori are in regular contact with Heaven. Yes, GURPS In Nomine is canon regarding the description of the Grigori and Skulker Resonances. No, brain-dead bodies aren't required for Grigori Vessels. As Heartless Outcasts, they enter Limbo when corporeally killed, and can thereafter accumulate Essence on their own, and create their own bodies. (The original version of INS/MV before the American translations used human corpses for Vessels, but very few angels use such things in the American version -- mainly only Kyriotates of Laurence, as a special case.)

07-23-2008, 04:13 PM	#40
JCD Join Date: May 2008 Location: Birthplace of the Worst Pizza on the Planet	Re: Who's next? Ah, I had forgotten that they could form their own vessels from Essence.