Magic Question: DF Buffs/On-Spells

[Mandavar]

I have a question concerning On-Spells.

For DF buff spells are very interesting to help group members survive.

If i understand Gurps:Magic right, a mage who casts blur on 3 different subjects gets -1 per active blur spell. So when he has skill 20 for the first spell and casts the second he has only 19 effective skill, and 18 for the third blur. Is this correct?

This also means that all spells in the eventually following combat get -3 to cast? This limits buff spells for Dungeon Fantasy massively.

Does the cost reduction change anything about the malus? Do you get the -1 skill penalty for on-spells even when maintainance is for free (cost no FP) due to high skill levels?

Thanks in advance for any answers!

[Crakkerjakk]

You asked almost the exact same question in another thread, and have had replies. Please don't repost your questions.

[Mandavar]

No, i hijacked a thread and asked my questions there (not getting answers).. i figured that was not a very good idea and opened an own thread.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by Mandavar

This also means that all spells in the eventually following combat get -3 to cast? This limits buff spells for Dungeon Fantasy massively.

DF doesn't crank the Magery up to 6 just for bigger fireballs. ;)

Originally Posted by Mandavar

Do you get the -1 skill penalty for on-spells even when maintainance is for free (cost no FP) due to high skill levels?

Yes, but check out Maintain Spell from the Meta College on p 128. Probably too many prereqs unless the character is a Cleric, but it does the job.

[Sielle]

I was curious do you still get the skill modifier if the caster choses "not" to maintain the spell? In other words they cast it and plan on letting it drop once the base duration expires. In this case would they still get the skill hit for having an "on" spell? Thanks.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Sielle

I was curious do you still get the skill modifier if the caster choses "not" to maintain the spell? In other words they cast it and plan on letting it drop once the base duration expires. In this case would they still get the skill hit for having an "on" spell? Thanks.

I would allow that, as long as the caster not only "intended" to let it drop, but actually completely gave up the ability to maintain the spell. If they want it to last more than one "increment" of duration from the point of casting, however, they'd definitely need to use Maintain Spell or something.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Sielle

I was curious do you still get the skill modifier if the caster choses "not" to maintain the spell? In other words they cast it and plan on letting it drop once the base duration expires. In this case would they still get the skill hit for having an "on" spell? Thanks.

I believe the official answer is that it is 'on' unless you actually cancel it.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

DF doesn't crank the Magery up to 6 just for bigger fireballs. ;)

Yep. A bog-standard DF 1 wizard can have IQ 15, Magery 6, and most spells at 18-19 right out of the academy. He's a newbie, and probably won't want to cast more than two or three spells to prepare for combat, so he can wade in at effective skill 16.

A wizard who has earned 50 points -- the nominal point at which you've made the grade and could even switch professions -- could pop into DF 3 and take to heart the note about raising existing advantages to whatever level the GM allows. That should allow Magery 11 and spells at 23-24, making seven or eight preparatory spells viable. With a mean GM, the mage might be stuck with raising IQ to 17 and only having spells at 20-21, so wise casters might stop at four or five pre-battle spells.

Of course, the real buff-masters are supposed to be clerics, not wizards. They mostly don't cast in combat; they cast beforehand and then bash things with weapons. They can manage skill 16-17 starting and pull the same cheese that wizards do to hit 21-22 or at least 19-20 (they can drop 50 points to raise PI 5 to the recommended PI 6 and buy IQ from 14 to 16). Given that spells cast at touch range before hostilities start can safely be tried at 14 or so, they can easily risk an extra couple of castings, too.

Note also that "plus to skill" items are valid treasures. We just haven't spelled them out in a supplement yet. But certainly, magic staffs or holy symbols that give from +1 to +3 to a specific spell, group of spells, or all spells are likely, and will further boost things.

And finally, Thaumatology has rules for how to modify spells as, say, area effects, if you can afford the FP. That will let you cast Armor and Might on all your pals yet have it count as just one spell "on." In that case, you'll want good power items and probably an ER besides.

[Diomedes]

If I were to specify a shorter duration for a spell, thus forgoing the opportunity to extend it at the end, would it still count as a spell-on?

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Diomedes

If I were to specify a shorter duration for a spell, thus forgoing the opportunity to extend it at the end, would it still count as a spell-on?

Personally, I think that's okay, but there might fairly be tradeoffs.

One way to look at it is from an enhancements-and-limitations viewpoint. There is a canonical enhancement hidden in the system for "no -1 per item 'on'": it's the +30% that improves the usual version of Independent (+40%) to the version that ignores the penalty (+70%), as that's all the higher version does in addition and none of the other effects matter here. So we'd want to balance this against, say, duration reduction. There's no official Reduced Duration limitation, but the progression should mirror the Extended Duration one, much as Increased and Reduced Range work. So since -20% is division by 3 and -40% is division by 10, -30% -- to balance that +30% -- would be division by 6 (well, strictly speaking, by 10^0.75, but 6 will do). Thus, it would be fair not to count a spell as "on" if its duration were divided by 6, which would make the typical one-minute buff a 10-second buff (like Great Haste).

Another point of view is that the spell has to maintain itself, and so needs a magical battery. I'd simply limit the spell to full base duration but add cost to maintain. So a spell that normally costs 5 to cast and 3 per minute to maintain, and that counts as "on," might cost 5 + 3 = 8 to run for one minute (not two!) without counting as "on."

I realize that the above will seem harsh to some, but note that the -1 per spell "on" is, like FP cost, one of the real balancing features of magic (as opposed to the mostly illusionary ones, like prerequisites). Skirting it should really be a big deal, not a trivial freebie.