Templates: Buying Down a Spirit's ST?

[Jinumon]

So, it's always struck me as odd that none of the existing templates for ghosts or spirits buy down ST, considering it is largely useless for them (aside from HP). Is this viable, or is there a rule somewhere that I'm missing that prohibits this?

Jinumon

[Refplace]

No rule prohibiting it but low ST makes them vulnerable to many things, including other spirits.

[Jinumon]

Originally Posted by Refplace

No rule prohibiting it but low ST makes them vulnerable to many things, including other spirits.

Not if they have Insubstantial with the "Cosmic, +50%" modifier. Or am I reading that wrong too?

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Jinumon

Not if they have Insubstantial with the "Cosmic, +50%" modifier. Or am I reading that wrong too?

Depends but generally not. So that would typically work but then your not saving much if thats the only reason to buy Cosmic. Also you would have to buy other abilities to manipulate things in your native environment.
So buying down ST is allowed, but most often ill advised.

[namada]

Hmmm . . .

[Plane]

ST for spirits would be useful for punching other spirits.

Lifting them too, unless I missed some trait that made them weightless.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Plane

ST for spirits would be useful for punching other spirits.

Lifting them too, unless I missed some trait that made them weightless.

Also grappling was a common method of spirit combat in many stories.

[talonthehand]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Also grappling was a common method of spirit combat in many stories.

My favorite is in The Elenium, where a necromancer (in the classical speak-to-ghosts sense, not zombie army sense) has to literally wrestle the ghosts for them to answer any questions.

[ericthered]

I generally view buying down spirit ST as a point crock, and I'd ask the player why they wanted to do it.



On the other hand, if a player came to me and asked me for a discount on higher ST for his spirit, I'd be pretty accommodating, as long as it wasn't intended to be used in the substantial world.

[WingedKagouti]

Originally Posted by Jinumon

Not if they have Insubstantial with the "Cosmic, +50%" modifier. Or am I reading that wrong too?

The Cosmic enhancement should in general be reserved for special entities. A spirit on the level of a deity would be a good candidate to have some abilities with Cosmic, but the spirit of a generic fox, a lesser spirit of anger or the spirit of a deceased person would almost certainly not.

Also, if the generic Spirit template uses Insubstantial (Cosmic), then every spirit has that and is able to interact normally with other spirits (same as if none of them had Cosmic). Remember that Cosmic generally cancels out an opposing Cosmic of the same cost. The only effect it would have would be to prevent non-spirits that somehow gain generic Insubstantial from interacting directly with spirits.