11-19-2012, 06:22 AM | #61 | |
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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Re: On Swords, Blades and the Song of Swords
Quote:
http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sho...413-Buff-Coats
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11-19-2012, 08:26 AM | #62 | |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
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Re: Cavalry Sabers
Quote:
Edit: I think that a late shamshir or a British Model 1796 Light Cavalry Sabre are examples of real swords that the Cavalry Sabre stats model. The defining features seem to be "long and heavy enough to get Weight 3 lbs and use Broadsword skill in the game" and "curved enough that they should have a penalty to thrusts relative to a Thrusting Broadsword in the game." Its not my field, but I think that such strongly curved swords first became popular around the 15th century. I suspect that their late appearance was driven by fashion not technical difficulties.
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"It is easier to banish a habit of thought than a piece of knowledge." H. Beam Piper This forum got less aggravating when I started using the ignore feature Last edited by Polydamas; 11-19-2012 at 09:02 AM. |
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11-19-2012, 12:29 PM | #63 |
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Milwaukee, WI
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Re: On Swords, Blades and the Song of Swords
Just a heads up:
Icelander, I have so much platonic love for you right now.
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11-20-2012, 12:18 AM | #64 | |||
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: Cavalry Sabers
Quote:
Quote:
I do know that there are plenty of TL3 weapons that I'd not hesitate to give Cavalry Saber stats. Quote:
I've always seen Cavalry Sabers as not necessarily just an inferior Broadsword, but also Shortswords with a bonus to cut damage. Anything that looks like it would be about as good as a Shortsword for thrusting, but is better for mounted use and slashing might well be a Cavalry Saber. Edit: I think that blade shape is more a matter for fashion than anything else and that it is inconsistent and inaccurate to make a particular shape TL4 just because that was the time period when it became popular in Europe. As GURPS unfortunately makes no distinction in Tech Levels between highly advanced Hellenistic and the even more highly advanced Romans and much earlier and less sophisticated Iron Age societies, pretty much all the weaponry and armour of historical times is TL2 in introduction and usually remains in use until TL4. I'd prefer moving TL3 to an earlier date and make mail, advanced artillery and crossbows, for example, emerging TL3 technology in the Hellenic and later Graeco-Roman world. At the height of their powers, the Romans, in my opinion and increasingly backed by new data, were not in any meaningful way of a lower Tech Level than was the rule after 600 CE. If we do that, I could see Cavalry Sabers as TL3 technology. By the usual GURPS TLs, though, I think that they are just as much TL2 as Thrusting Broadswords and Falchions, even though they were not as fashionable. That is, I would use Cavalry Saber stats to model some makhairas, drepanas or other swords that are long enough to be used comfortably from horseback, good for cutting and at least reasonably good for thrusting. Falchion stat Shortswords would give the same cut damage, aye, but less thrusting damage, and if we are using optional rules for Reach and modifiers for the Cavalry Training technique, such shorter and thicker blades would be less comfortable in anything but a very close melee. I'd not blink at seeing one of Alexander's Hetaroi given a makhaira with Cavalry Saber stats, as a personal preference over a shorter kopis.
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Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela! Last edited by Icelander; 11-20-2012 at 04:40 AM. |
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11-20-2012, 08:55 PM | #65 |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
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Re: On Swords, Blades and the Song of Swords
You can stat things however you want in your games (the Realms are a potpouri setting after all!) but I think that Low Tech is clear about what counts as a Cavalry Sabre to the authors, and as far as I know swords like that appear in about the 15th century. "A curved, one-handed slashing sword ... heavier [than a Shortsword] ... steeply curved." Do you know of any examples of those before the 15th century? If it first appears in the 15th century, then its probably TL 4 in GURPS, although I don't take the GURPS technology/economy model too seriously.
Edit: I certainly wouldn't quibble with any iron-working society making swords with Cavalry Saber stats once they have been invented. And in the Realms, any practical type of sword was probably invented a long time ago. But I think it is good for LT to note that in our history, these swords appeared later than one might think.
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"It is easier to banish a habit of thought than a piece of knowledge." H. Beam Piper This forum got less aggravating when I started using the ignore feature Last edited by Polydamas; 11-20-2012 at 09:07 PM. |
11-20-2012, 10:26 PM | #66 | |
Join Date: May 2007
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Re: On Swords, Blades and the Song of Swords
Quote:
gladius.revistas.csic.es/index.php/gladius/article/download/86/86 The author examines museum pieces, archaeological finds, and images on frescos, mosaics, and coins to make his determinations. While not as dramatically curved as, say, a Blucher sabel they would, IMHO, fit the description of "saber." |
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11-21-2012, 02:39 AM | #67 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: On Swords, Blades and the Song of Swords
Quote:
By the 9th century onwards, I have no doubts at all of the existence of sharply curved Cavalry Sabers, in Iran/Khorasan and elsewhere, including China. Aside from that, I don't see any need for an extremely sharp curve for a weapon to qualify as a Cavalry Saber in terms of stats. If you check the TL4 Backsword, it gets thr+1 and sw+1 just like the Cavalry Saber, apparently because it is single-edged. While I wouldn't go so far as to say that all single-edged swords are Cavalry Sabers or Falchions, I think that there is a wide range of weapons at TL2+ that qualify as better than Shortswords for slashing and mounted use, while still not being Thrusting Broadswords. Of course, such analysis is complicated by the fact that in realism terms, there ought not be any damage advantage to a slightly longer sword on the thrust. Shortswords are not worse for thrusting than broadswords. But in the system as it stands, I think we have to read the Cavalry Saber stats as applying to any weapon that is about as good as a Shortsword for thrusting, but better for cutting. That includes hunting swords, hangers and cutlasses, if they have a blade longer than 24" or so.
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11-21-2012, 09:42 AM | #68 | |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
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Re: On Swords, Blades and the Song of Swords
Quote:
There is a popular meme that medieval Moslems all used curved swords, which seems to derived from medieval Christian art which marked "pagans" with curved swords and the fact that many "orientals" used strongly curved swords in the 19th century.
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11-21-2012, 08:40 PM | #69 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
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Re: On Swords, Blades and the Song of Swords
I didn't even realize I had that stereotype, until you mentioned it. I do picture medeival Muslims with curved swords.
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12-27-2012, 02:22 PM | #70 |
Join Date: Dec 2012
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Re: On Swords, Blades and the Song of Swords
Greetings all !
I have a little question about a famous sword. The Conan sword (1982 version with Schwarzy). This is a movie creation but one of my character want to use it and which GURPS stat to this ? http://filmswords.com/conan/conan-sw...nniversary.htm or this variant : http://www.bronzebyjeffreyjrobinson....edeluvian.html This is a Thrusting bastard sword ? The Conan sword looks like a little more heavier than this. And which use or technique of the long ricasso ? Conan uses it one or two-handed and event thrown it. To match with the movie I think than it a very fine weapon and perhaps have some mystical propriety ? Ornate level... Another question about the Long knife. The Throwing knife skill said than you could thrown any type of knife, but I haven't find the stat to thrown a long knife. And this knife with a 8" blade is a long knife or not ? What stat give you to the Fallkniven Oden ? http://www.fallkniven.com/en/shop/de...ive-knives/nl2 I have some difficulty to match some real knife with the stat. For exemple a knife with a 6 -7" is a large knife ? How long is the blade of a small knife or a long knife ? Thanks for your help. |
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