Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-08-2020, 08:02 AM   #21
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: How would you promote GURPS to RPG newbies?

The problem with 'playing the game, not the system' is that you can use any universal system then. One of the reasons why GURPS is good is because of the system and, while we all tinker with it for our games and settings, it is an adequate foundation. Other universal systems are more cumbersome and/or less comprehensive, so GURPS just works better for most games. I mean, I would much rather use GURPS RPM for the magic of a Dresden Files game than anything from the Fate system.
AlexanderHowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2020, 10:06 AM   #22
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
Default Re: How would you promote GURPS to RPG newbies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
The problem with 'playing the game, not the system' is that you can use any universal system then. One of the reasons why GURPS is good is because of the system and, while we all tinker with it for our games and settings, it is an adequate foundation. Other universal systems are more cumbersome and/or less comprehensive, so GURPS just works better for most games. I mean, I would much rather use GURPS RPM for the magic of a Dresden Files game than anything from the Fate system.

But what are you trying to do? Are you trying to make the point that GURPS is the only system they should ever use, or ever need to use? Or are you just trying to persuade them that GURPS is a playable and versatile system? Because for the latter you can just run games in it and let them discover its merits.
__________________
Bill Stoddard

I don't think we're in Oz any more.
whswhs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2020, 10:27 AM   #23
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: How would you promote GURPS to RPG newbies?

Of course, but it is probably important to use genres that easily play off the strengths of GURPS. Taking a bunch of D&D players and convincing them to play 50 CP characters (the equivalent of a level 1 PC class) in a fantasy campaign is likely to result in frustration for both the players and the GM as the players start complaining about slow progression. Having them play in 500 CP characters in a supers game though will allow them to truly experience the joy of GURPS, and they will likely come to enjoy the system as they naturally explore the flexibility of the system.
AlexanderHowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2020, 01:08 PM   #24
Raekai
World's Worst Detective
 
Raekai's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Default Re: How would you promote GURPS to RPG newbies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
The problem with 'playing the game, not the system' is that you can use any universal system then. One of the reasons why GURPS is good is because of the system and, while we all tinker with it for our games and settings, it is an adequate foundation. Other universal systems are more cumbersome and/or less comprehensive, so GURPS just works better for most games. I mean, I would much rather use GURPS RPM for the magic of a Dresden Files game than anything from the Fate system.
It is an adequate foundation, but I definitely don't know if I agree that it just works better for most games—I actually think those two statements don't even really agree that well. I don't think being adequate equates to being a better fit unless all other universal systems are inadequate.

Savage Worlds feels like it might just be a runner up for not-very-cumbersome-yet-still-quite-comprehensive. I'm also not a huge fan of Fate, and I would rather use Fudge, which makes me sad that its popularity has drastically dwindled. Furthermore, I think non-universal systems are great for certain games as well. Just because GURPS can theoretically handle anything doesn't mean that it does so well—there's a whole thread on things that GURPS doesn't handle well.

As much as I love GURPS, it doesn't handle the games that my group wants to play very well, and another part of that is that some settings are tied to a system that feels natural for them. I like universal ideas over universal systems, I think. Like, a lot of OSR material is bound by similar ideas and they play fairly similarly, but having it be non-universal means there's a lot of choice, and it means that certain games can really tweak the underlying system(s) to fit them better. I wouldn't play Mausritter, NUMA, Carapace, or even MÖRK BORG with GURPS. Of course, I admit that I'm biased and opinionated because I feel like I spent too much of my time not trying other systems (which is absolutely not a judgement to people who do want to stick with GURPS, but I have personally learned a lot of trying other games, and that's also not to say that people can't try other games and then decide to stick with GURPS).

Also, I acknowledge that this conversation is tangential, and I also want to make it clear that I'm not intending to sound like a jerk in any way.

Furthermore, I definitely very strongly agree with the sentiment of selling a game over selling a system. Most newbs probably aren't going to care that much about the system until they've used it. I think selling GURPS as a system comes after using it. Like, "I'm glad you liked that game. And I have good news! The system we used is universal, so we can play just about any genre with it if we want to stick with it." More than its universality, I think GURPS's flexibility would be a stronger selling point for most of the people I know.

But, again, my buddy's girlfriend really likes the idea of playing a game of cute critters like mice and frogs and beetles, and my first thought is not GURPS because I don't think it handles the scale very well (unless I want to go through it myself and re-scale everything, but I don't want to do that work).
Raekai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2020, 02:04 PM   #25
Taneli
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Default Re: How would you promote GURPS to RPG newbies?

Raekai, GURPS Bunnies and Burrows.

As for the general topic, yes sell the game, not the system!
__________________
[/delurk]
AotA is of course IMHO, YMMV.
vincit qui se vincit
Taneli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2020, 02:57 PM   #26
Raekai
World's Worst Detective
 
Raekai's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Default Re: How would you promote GURPS to RPG newbies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taneli View Post
Raekai, GURPS Bunnies and Burrows.
Ah, right! Good call. I forget about pre-4e stuff sometimes.
Raekai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2020, 03:07 PM   #27
mook
 
mook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Default Re: How would you promote GURPS to RPG newbies?

The post-convention game words I never tire of hearing:

"That was easy!"

We know! Tell your friends. :D
__________________
How to Be a GURPS GM, author
Game Geekery, Blog (GURPS combat examples, fillable PDF sheets, rules summaries, campaigns and one-shots, beginners' intro)
GURPS Discord, unofficial hangout and real-time chat
mook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2020, 03:15 PM   #28
mehrkat
 
mehrkat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Austin Texas
Default Re: How would you promote GURPS to RPG newbies?

Raekai.

If I were running a game for tiny things I would just reset the scale. Just change size mod 0 to whatever size the average pc is and to describe the world in that way.

For instance I had a game concept of a magical apocalypse where everyone was reduced to one inch to the foot size. Housecats would be maybe size mod 4 or 5. A family car would be like a mountainous climb to get to the top of. Trying to scale all the pcs down then every action they take back is just a headache no one needs.
__________________
He stared out in the distance to see the awesome might of the Meerkat war party.
mehrkat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2020, 03:37 PM   #29
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
Default Re: How would you promote GURPS to RPG newbies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Of course, but it is probably important to use genres that easily play off the strengths of GURPS. Taking a bunch of D&D players and convincing them to play 50 CP characters (the equivalent of a level 1 PC class) in a fantasy campaign is likely to result in frustration for both the players and the GM as the players start complaining about slow progression. Having them play in 500 CP characters in a supers game though will allow them to truly experience the joy of GURPS, and they will likely come to enjoy the system as they naturally explore the flexibility of the system.
I believe that the topic of this thread was not promoting GURPS to people who have played D&D, but promoting it to people who have never played an rpg. So I don't think this is relevant.

Though when I offered to introduce people at the gaming club in the Inland Empire to GURPS, they were mostly D&D players by background. But I didn't find it necessary to offer them high-powered characters. Rather, I offered them a campaign set on Lowellian Mars (using GURPS Mars) in the Age of Steam, with characters built on 120 points.

I don't offer my players power fantasies as a main attraction. What I offer them is the opportunity to roleplay without the constraint of character classes, richly detailed settings, and a choice of more or less out of the ordinary campaign premises. I've had happy players at point values from 75 to 1600 with that approach.
__________________
Bill Stoddard

I don't think we're in Oz any more.
whswhs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2020, 06:41 PM   #30
kirbwarrior
 
kirbwarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dreamland
Default Re: How would you promote GURPS to RPG newbies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raekai View Post
More than its universality, I think GURPS's flexibility would be a stronger selling point for most of the people I know.
That's the big thing to me. I haven't seen a system that both allows too much freedom and actually makes that freedom mean something other than GURPS. Like I could tell the whole party to make lightning-themed characters and each one could take a ranged attack that both feels and works different from each other easily. For new players, I can help them make their character, not fit their character into a system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
What I offer them is the opportunity to roleplay without the constraint of character classes, richly detailed settings, and a choice of more or less out of the ordinary campaign premises.
Which applies to the above but to me in a more GM-based manner. I like using systems that are built for a specific setting, but there are vastly more settings than systems, let alone setting specific ones. But with gurps I can sit down and tell everyone "We're doing a psuedo-school campaign based around sort of superheroes in a pre-post-apocalypse setting, here is you required advantage, disadvantage, and point totals" which when said feels pretty out there but is one of my longer running settings to date. And with how much sessions in it can bounce between combat-focus to dealing with making friends to suddenly gritty because nothing works to "I try to seduce the enemy ship" I'm glad to have a system that's more flexible than I am.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
While I do not think that GURPS is perfect I do think that it is more balanced than what I am likely to create by GM fiat.
kirbwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.