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Old 09-29-2020, 03:55 PM   #1
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default List of skills with defaults which only SOME characters have?

All I can remember off hand is two:

Area Knowledge (B176 "You have an IQ default only for Area Knowledge of a place where you live or once lived.")

Thaumatology (B225 "There is no default in a nonmagical setting, or for those who have never witnessed “real” magic.")

Does anyone recall others? Would like to keep track of and consider them collectively.

These kinds of distinctions seem like potential benefits some people have without paying points for them. Like if you specify "I have previously lived in 100 cities" then you have a default skill in AK for 100 cities? You're way better off than "I lived in just 1 city" where you only get 1 default.

Similarly "I witnessed real magic once" is apparently a benefit of some sort without paying points for it. Should perhaps "I witnessed magic" be a UB perk or "I never witnessed magic" be a quirk? Presumably a prereq to actually spending points in the Thaumatology skill?

Represented "I lived someplace" as a perk also seems kinda reasonable to explain why you get area knowledge, and maybe require it to actually put points in that skill (but not to get a default from Geography) ?

That might possibly be a prereq to "Hospitality" too?
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Old 09-30-2020, 01:05 AM   #2
pgb
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Default Re: List of skills with defaults which only SOME characters have?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
All I can remember off hand is two:

Area Knowledge (B176 "You have an IQ default only for Area Knowledge of a place where you live or once lived.")

Thaumatology (B225 "There is no default in a nonmagical setting, or for those who have never witnessed “real” magic.")

Does anyone recall others? Would like to keep track of and consider them collectively.
I sort of feel the same, and would certainly be interested in a list (ideally annotated) of those where there's an explicit RAW indication of this. But in practice I think there may be too many borderline cases. For many skills, you can imagine someone not even having default-level knowledge, despite their race & TL. The text on pB173 makes it clear that there is lots of variation, and I think the example (Scuba default from TV) is helpful.

Current Affairs (Regional) seems an obvious candidate, but there's nothing explicit in RAW. Maybe TOO obvious?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
These kinds of distinctions seem like potential benefits some people have without paying points for them. Like if you specify "I have previously lived in 100 cities" then you have a default skill in AK for 100 cities? You're way better off than "I lived in just 1 city" where you only get 1 default.

Similarly "I witnessed real magic once" is apparently a benefit of some sort without paying points for it. Should perhaps "I witnessed magic" be a UB perk or "I never witnessed magic" be a quirk? Presumably a prereq to actually spending points in the Thaumatology skill?

Represented "I lived someplace" as a perk also seems kinda reasonable to explain why you get area knowledge, and maybe require it to actually put points in that skill (but not to get a default from Geography) ?

That might possibly be a prereq to "Hospitality" too?
Power-Ups 2 (Perks) has some discussion of this, and the Background Knowledge perk. Obviously it's worth a look; key points are: yes, there's an official perk along those lines; no, the GM doesn't have to give you default AK for 100 cities just because you claim to have lived in them.

I'd argue against requiring that sort of perk as a pre-req for AK. Living somewhere gives you a whole set of defaults - typically one from each Area Class (pB176/177), whereas points are spent on one particular specialty. I'd run it the other way: if a European character spends a point for AK (Canada), I'd probably let them gain a default AK for one Canadian city, depending on the back-story.

The wording from pB225 covers an extreme case; it doesn't imply that "I witnessed real magic once" is enough to get you the Thaumatology default. I'd require some extended exposure, however casual, for that. Either way, yes there's a distinction here between characters in the same world who have and haven't got that background exposure to magic. You could regard it as a familiarity - i.e. below the resolution of knowledge paid for with points - or as a perk/quirk. Depending on what you prefer to take as the baseline, it could be a perk-level Unusual Background or a quirk-level Mundane Background.

For what it's worth, I have a short item in Path of Cunning #2 (https://tekeli.li/path-of-cunning/) that addresses some related issues.
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Old 09-30-2020, 01:31 AM   #3
bocephus
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Default Re: List of skills with defaults which only SOME characters have?

The 100 cities thing is easily covered by "Unusual Background".

First with my GM hat on, "Lived in" is not passed through, is not stayed in a hotel and worked the conference center for a couple weeks. i would need some pretty impressive tap dancing on the part of the player to explain that length of time in that many cities. I think it would have to be 2-3 consecutive months minimum with a job that brings you into contact with a broad cross section of the population (like a journalist or a door to door sales man or Bruce Banner itinerant do gooder). Unless we are talking about a PC thats hundreds of years old or something I dont see it being possible and still being an adventurer. Even if you say "its an old vampire" that would still trigger memory rolls and how up to date is the info anyway. For sure you cant make any serious relationships or connections to people beyond maybe "favors".

If a player makes a char, then says to me "Oh ya and she's lived in like 100 cities" they are going to get 'that look' and then we will have a short discussion on min maxing and trying to engineer freebies.

Barring that...

If they have a perfectly plausible back story that is supported by the rest of the character points/development, charging them 5pts or 10pts for an Unusual Background to cover this rather extensive "perk" depending on how it impacts the game wouldn't be game altering IMO. But no way is it "free".
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Old 09-30-2020, 02:28 AM   #4
Celjabba
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Luxembourg
Default Re: List of skills with defaults which only SOME characters have?

Note : all defaults are subject to this.
You can only have a default if you know the skill exist and have at least see it done (even if only on tv) or some description.
For most skills, this is far below the level of a perk and it is assumed that if the world know about it, you do ! (B173)
Thaumatology just spell it out clearly (because magic is sometimes a secret in universe), but it is true for all skills.

For the AK : The Background Knowledge perk cover this.

The first one is free, and I often give a second one for free.
Past that, you need to pay for it.

"I have previously lived in 100 cities" would require an UB
Perhaps 10cp for a "Universal Background Knowledge:
"wherever the campaign lead you, you spent at least a couple months there in the not too distant past" . This only apply to cities you physically travel to during play, not any random place on the news.
Double the cost if it also apply to other planets/dimension/planes ...

Last edited by Celjabba; 09-30-2020 at 07:16 AM.
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Old 09-30-2020, 06:57 AM   #5
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: List of skills with defaults which only SOME characters have?

Or you could handle the 100-cities case just by adopting a policy that you get exactly one free background AK regardless of concept, though this backstory certainly supports buying all 100 if that's what you envision for the character. The munchkins will promptly revise their concept, which shows that it wasn't actually important to them to begin with.

The rules aren't intended to be mined for an endless supply of free points by over-exaggerating the examples therein and engineering a distorted character background to scoop them up, Phillip Rothfuss style. Seems simpler to me just to plug those "holes" than argue individual cases.

In this specific case, it's pretty obvious than a normal human can't have lived in 100 different cities long enough to have become AK-familiar with the whole thing, nor retained that information in current form from those cities they were living in 50-100 years ago. You'd have to drag in not just extended lifespan just to have had the time to live in them all once, but enough frequent revisits to keep currently on all the changes since you were actually a resident. (Even in my own life, I don't have detailed AK of the places I grew up, or even lived in a decade ago. The major structural streets are in the same place, sure; I can drive around town. Finding the trendy restaurant, best shop, or underground hangouts is an entirely different question.)
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Old 09-30-2020, 07:06 AM   #6
Stormcrow
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ronkonkoma, NY
Default Re: List of skills with defaults which only SOME characters have?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
These kinds of distinctions seem like potential benefits some people have without paying points for them. Like if you specify "I have previously lived in 100 cities" then you have a default skill in AK for 100 cities? You're way better off than "I lived in just 1 city" where you only get 1 default.
And where is the GM in all of this? GURPS expects the GM to use common sense and judge these things. "100 cities? You've spent so much time moving around you've never had time to develop a default in any of them." Likewise with your other examples.
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Old 09-30-2020, 03:19 PM   #7
dcarson
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Default Re: List of skills with defaults which only SOME characters have?

Where are those 100 cities. If they are all in the US that means you get AK(US) as the default and in any city you roll at -4 for 2 steps more specific. If all over the world AK(World) and cities are -8, large countries are -2, small countries are -4.
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Old 09-30-2020, 09:40 PM   #8
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: List of skills with defaults which only SOME characters have?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
And where is the GM in all of this? GURPS expects the GM to use common sense and judge these things. "100 cities? You've spent so much time moving around you've never had time to develop a default in any of them." Likewise with your other examples.
Some immortal might have done so though.

IE you go around spending times in cities just enough to get a default, but not enough to put points in them as dabbler or 1 full point.

That's why I like a "perk to unlock default" prereq to dabbler/full.
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Old 10-01-2020, 09:39 AM   #9
Stormcrow
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ronkonkoma, NY
Default Re: List of skills with defaults which only SOME characters have?

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Originally Posted by Plane View Post
Some immortal might have done so though.
If a player goes to the trouble of buying Unaging [15] just so they can roll IQ-4 defaults for Area Knowledge in a hundred cities, then let 'em have it, I say. This is hardly a road to abuse.
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Old 10-01-2020, 11:07 AM   #10
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: List of skills with defaults which only SOME characters have?

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Originally Posted by Plane View Post
Some immortal might have done so though.
.
Giving them a huge number of out-of-date area knowledges. But that's fine. After all they paid the points for their immunity to aging. It's only fair they get some benefit for it.
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