Justifying bioroids

[Tyneras]

Maybe the majority of bioroids could come from one specific society or culture. If (international?) law prevents self destruct systems, then they could be spreading out as they finish out their indentured period, or maybe charities buy out their contracts.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by the-red-scare

The only thing I can think of is government subsidizing them for some reason. Not enough parents would want to buy bioroids as children, and any business venture would expect their money back.

Certain types of bioroids could have been created for a long over war. Or the majority of them may just have paid off the debt for their creation which was large enough to make making them still a profitable proposition. Bioroids could also be made for AIs and ghosts who want to explore or return to biological existence

[Pomphis]

Originally Posted by the-red-scare

The only thing I can think of is government subsidizing them for some reason.

This. Most rich societies have shrinking populations, except for immigration from poorer countries. If we had bioroids today, japan for example might well build lots of them. I am also not at all convinced that many people from high-tech (= rich) societies would want to emigrate to colonies, so if governments want to colonize other words bioroids might be an important part of that.

[hal]

Bioroids and modern Earth society...

History points us towards a way of understanding what might happen if Bioroid technology is perfected and unleashed on the world in general.

1) any time you have an established community and a sudden influx of immigrants who will subsequently compete for the limited pool of jobs - you end up with the "prejudice" issue. When the Irish immigrated to the United States, some jobs in papers had "Irish needn't apply" appended to it. As each wave of workers entered into the United States, they had to compete against locals who needed or wanted those jobs. They had an uphill fight for acceptance within the general community.

2) With automation becoming a major thing, uneducated jobs are starting to dry up. McDonalds today, is working towards automating the food production process so as to cut its labor costs. This has a dual effect on the economy in the sense that it becomes better able to compete against those businesses who don't automate, but also removes a player from the economy in that they can not participate in the economy without a job. It is ultimately a catch-22 situation where corporations want to cut their bottom line costs, but want to be able to sell their products and services to a dwindling pool of "economic participants".

So - every time this one player wants to introduce robots that can take the place of human beings into the picture, he always ends up with Unions who fight/organize against him, and people who are unable to participate in the job market resenting him.

At least, that's what he faces in any near future Earth campaign that I run. ;)

Now, you run into the next issue - if slavery is outlawed, what is going to happen when you have intelligent Bioroids? Ever pay attention to PETA and have you noticed more and more - how laws are being passed that restrict what an owner can or can't do with their "properly" otherwise known as pets? A case in point would be the outrage at removing claws from a cat. I know that earlier on, this was legal in New York State or at least the locality that I lived in. Later on, it became illegal.

So - Bioroids are going to introduce a whole SLEW of social consciousness issues, not the least of which are Bioroids that look human or even remotely human.

Mind you, I'm just pointing out the less "Dark" issues. Do I need to open the can of worms about Bioroid/Human interactions that involve the act of procreation (trying to keep it G rated folks!). Do I need to open up the can of worms involving "racial relations" where a bioroid can be made to look human and can be owned much in the manner of slaves? Do I need to mention "bioroid abuse" or any other possible activities that might cause social unrest?

There are laws against the act of procreation with animals and there is a special name for that act in a legal fashion. Would such an interaction with a Bioroid be deemed in that guise - even if outwardly, the bioroid looks/acts/feels/thinks entirely like a human?

In all? Bioroids are a can of worms worthy of any science fiction writer, and the mere introduction of those into "realistic earth society" is going to be akin to watching a remake of RISE OF THE PLANET OF THE APES or CONQUEST OF THE PLANET OF THE APES.

In all? If you want to discuss this more deeply - open up a new thread called "Dark uses for BIOTECH" and see what ideas the forums will present to you. The really bad news is - unfettered bioresearch has the potential to be worse than any Manhattan project or Hydrogen Bomb research ever had. Any nation that perceives Unethical bioresearch as being the next generation Manhattan project - can easily result in Biobombs being released that will be the start of the AFTER THE END style campaigns.

For inspiration? Read what happens in REIGN OF STEEL - I don't know where you want your campaign to go, but the introduction of Bioroids along with GURPS ULTRATECH along with GURPS BIOTECH should make your players afraid - VERY afraid.

;)

[Tyneras]

Bioroids are a bit of a conceptual leftover from before people understood what automation would actually do to the workforce, a bit like alchemy's 4 elements. That means making them fit is going to require either a lot of handwaving or a cultural or political motivation since they will never have any practical value over robots in a realistic economy.

As far as shrinking populations, the issue is more nuanced than is often realized. If you remove immigration, then in the USA the rural areas have positive growth and the cities deeply negative growth. This was the norm for most of human history, cities only survived due to constant immigration from the countryside.

In a world where economic advantages have evened out, or telepresence has removed the need for physical immigration, then you could have a situation where the the wealthy nations have disintegrating, half empty cities and are producing bioroids to keep up appearances. Like how cities cover empty stores fronts with painted plywood so their dying retail areas don't look so terrible.

[AlexanderHowl]

Rural areas in the USA also have negative growth without immigration, as the vast majority of children leave and never come back. Take a look at Kansas, its population has grown only 2% in the past decade, and that is only because of immigration. The number of farms have dropped from 7 million in 1945 to 2 million in 2020, which means that the services that supported those farms have had a similar reduction. Most people farm as a hobby, every small farmer I know in NC and NY has a normal job, as does their spouse, and I cannot think of a single farming family that I have known over the last 20 years that had more than 3 children during that time.

[Anthony]

For most of human history, children have been an investment that was likely to pay off in no more than a moderate time frame. The problem with a modern economy is that the cost and time of producing new labor has gone up faster than the productivity of labor, so having children is a dubious investment. There are still non-economic incentives for having children, but they're significantly nonlinear, so you have a lot of one-and-done families.

Given bioroid-like tech, I suspect that rather than producing bioroids, the preferred use would be reducing the cost of children. Skipping nine month of being pregnant I'm sure would be popular, and I suspect many people would be fine skipping the first months to years of baby raising as well -- adopters generally favor under 2 years of age, so probably figure not older than that, but there's still a big difference between a newborn who keeps you up all hours of the night and a one year old.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Given bioroid-like tech, I suspect that rather than producing bioroids, the preferred use would be reducing the cost of children. Skipping nine month of being pregnant I'm sure would be popular, and I suspect many people would be fine skipping the first months to years of baby raising as well -- adopters generally favor under 2 years of age, so probably figure not older than that, but there's still a big difference between a newborn who keeps you up all hours of the night and a one year old.

Humans are born underdeveloped because of cephalopelvic disproportion. If women could survive giving birth to infants as well developed as newborn chimpanzees, the first few months could probably be bypassed.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Humans are born underdeveloped because of cephalopelvic disproportion. If women could survive giving birth to infants as well developed as newborn chimpanzees, the first few months could probably be bypassed.

And if you have exowombs, those ratios are no longer relevant.

[AlexanderHowl]

Of course, we do not know if there are cognitive and psychological benefits to developing within a human woman/bioroid woman. You may have a situation where bioroids have to develop within human women/bioroid woman for the first six months to avoid suffering from massive cognitive and psychological difficulties. At that point, bioroids become just another type of designer baby and exowombs are just better incubation chambers for premature babies.

Let us example that scenario for a moment. The consequences of using an exowomb are the following:

Entire development = -2 IQ and -40 CP in mental disadvantages
83.3% development = -1 IQ, -1 Will, -1 Per, and -30 CP in mental disadvantages
66.7% development = -1 IQ and -20 CP in mental disadvantages
50% of development = -1 Will, -1 Per, and -10 in mental disadvantages
33.3% of development = No change

The most immediate impact is that the very wealthy and very privileged people who can initially pay for the use of exowombs will be baying for blood when they realize that someone is very wrong with their children.

Would there be a place for bioroids in a world where every bioroid must be born to a human woman/bioroid woman? Even if they suffer from discrimination and prejudice, I imagine that they will be afforded full human rights in the majority of civilized nations because they will be initially be born to human woman. Of course, unpleasantness could occur when bioroids attempted to flee oppression in less civilized nations to find freedom in more civilized nations.

Now, imagine creating bioroids that are capable of sexual reproduction with normal humans (and genetic upgrades), though not with other bioroids (or parahumans). Fifty percent of the children are normal humans (or genetic upgrades) while fifty percent are bioroids. At that point, they are just another exotic expression of humanity, a little more distant than most genetic upgrades but a lot closer than any parahumans.