(Another) World of Superhumans

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Well, a realistic setting includes both abilities and consequences.

See, I don't use "realistic" to describe such things, since the vast amount of abilities people think of as "super powers" are not realistic. So, the goal is verisimilitude; even while we include fantastic elements, the setting needs the appearance of being true or real.

I'm wondering if that ought to be extended to powers. That's been a source of some confusion for me: you know, the times when it wasn't from misreading or missing or forgetting past comments. >.> If we do continue to have physics defying powers, one can still try for verisimilitude, of course, but that means accepting how truly limited human science must be if these things that are impossible keep happening.

It would also offer a stark contrast between most other superhero settings with which I am familiar.

[AlexanderHowl]

Let us say narrative consistency for abilities and realism for their consequences. In order to preserve narrative consistency, abilities like Jumper and Snatcher need to be avoided, as do cinematic abilities like Gadgeteer.

For example, what are the realistic consequence of having a super with Lifting ST 22 (Super, -10%; Super-Effort, +400%) [324] and Warp (Reliable+10, +50%; Super, -10%) [140]? The individual would be able to easily transport a 9,000 metric ton spacecraft into LEO and back without difficulty, meaning that they would be able to transport, by themselves, around 18 million metric tons per year into LEO without difficulty. With some effort, they could even travel to Mars, allowing them to teleport 9,000 metric tons from the Earth to Mars with just a few hours if concentration.

[mr beer]

You can't reasonably determine what this world will be like by looking at it from the ground up, although that can provide inspiration.

The premise of 'there are a lot of supers and they have different amounts of points in superpowers with a cap of x' is effectively infinite variables to insert into decades of world history.

Better to decide what you want it to be like and then justify the setting with superpowers as required.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Let us say narrative consistency for abilities and realism for their consequences. In order to preserve narrative consistency, abilities like Jumper and Snatcher need to be avoided, as do cinematic abilities like Gadgeteer.

For example, what are the realistic consequence of having a super with Lifting ST 22 (Super, -10%; Super-Effort, +400%) [324] and Warp (Reliable+10, +50%; Super, -10%) [140]? The individual would be able to easily transport a 9,000 metric ton spacecraft into LEO and back without difficulty, meaning that they would be able to transport, by themselves, around 18 million metric tons per year into LEO without difficulty. With some effort, they could even travel to Mars, allowing them to teleport 9,000 metric tons from the Earth to Mars with just a few hours if concentration.

Would they also need to accelerate it to orbital velocity, or would teleporting to a space station deal with that? The first is a pain in the neck, the second allows for perpetual motion engines (actually so does the first, so it's not a reason to ditch the second case).

[Aldric]

Originally Posted by Rupert

Would they also need to accelerate it to orbital velocity, or would teleporting to a space station deal with that? The first is a pain in the neck, the second allows for perpetual motion engines (actually so does the first, so it's not a reason to ditch the second case).

While this is most likely a campaign switch of some kind (deciding how teleportation works in the setting) I'd probably decide for something like "you arrive at rest at the target location" but add an additional penalty on long range teleports to account for the speed difference. Bit of a headache on some jumps, saves the setting from accidental satellites teleported to ground level, or people teleporting to the other side of the planet and slamming into walls at 2k miles per hour. Adjusting arrival speed would be a linked attack ability of some kind.

It's possible, depending on the setting, that teleports would be limited to about, let's say, 186000 miles, take hyperjump for longer trips if available.

I also see it as highly unlikely that someone would develop super lifting strength and warp at the same time, and having supers with warp train as weight lifters seem like metagaming, so I'd be looking at a way to separate warp carrying capacity from BL if I had to run a Super campaign.

[AlexanderHowl]

It is actually a standard build in Supers (alternatives are mental carrying capacity and telekinetic carrying capacity). A way to avoid perpetual motion is to say that teleportation gives local velocity (it can be given a scientific explanation that the teleporter adds or subtracts from the rotational velocity of the lesser gravitational body). In that case, a teleporter going from Earth to Mars gives Mars additional rotational energy and a teleporter going from Mars to Earth would subtract rotational energy from Mars.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by Aldric

I also see it as highly unlikely that someone would develop super lifting strength and warp at the same time, and having supers with warp train as weight lifters seem like metagaming, so I'd be looking at a way to separate warp carrying capacity from BL if I had to run a Super campaign.

Based on the wording in Supers you're buying Super-Effort: Warp +400% on the ability that determines your final weight limit to increase your lifting capacity for Warp. I don't believe the modifier is intended to provide "normal" Super-Effort in addition to that.

I also see it as highly unlikely that someone would develop super lifting strength and warp at the same time, and having supers with warp train as weight lifters seem like metagaming, so I'd be looking at a way to separate warp carrying capacity from BL if I had to run a Super campaign.

I have trouble seeing how it would be a natural and fairly common stress response. Sending someone away usually doesn't mean orbit or even half way across the globe. Out of sight is usually sufficient, and the one sending probably doesn't care where they end up either. Also, unless what you're sending away happens to be the size of elephants Super Effort doesn't seem to naturally fit either.

[AlexanderHowl]

When it comes to Lifting ST, BL increases when you use Super-Effort, which increases Warp capacity (the restriction that Super-Effort only effects Warp capacity is limited to Super-Effort on Will for mental carrying capacity). As for the ability, it is important to remember that abilities come from the unconscious desires of the superhumans as well as stress reactions. How many adolescents (or adults for that matter) have dreamed of being a spaceship captain? In order to be a spaceship captain, you need a spaceship that can move through space and, since captains give the orders to move the spaceship, it is not that much of a conceptual leap to posit that the captains are the source of the spaceship's movement.

Another possible reason for it coming about is an adolescent who is panicking after a landslide and needs to move massive boulders now. The initial ability combination would allow them to move boulders up to 9,000 metric tons (15 meters in radius). Other options would be an adolescent who wants to be a Navy captain being filled so much with desire during a tour of a naval ship that they accidentally teleport it home.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

How many adolescents (or adults for that matter) have dreamed of being a spaceship captain? In order to be a spaceship captain, you need a spaceship that can move through space and, since captains give the orders to move the spaceship, it is not that much of a conceptual leap to posit that the captains are the source of the spaceship's movement.

Aside from the requisite leaps, I wouldn't call it one of the top 20 or even 100 desires. The bulk of the wish fulfillment abilities would probably be related adolescent pressures since you've specified powers develop during puberty.

A world where most super power manifests at 15 years old to do what 15 year olds normally wouldn't be able to do (legally, morally, etc) is actually a pretty sobering thought.

Another possible reason for it coming about is an adolescent who is panicking after a landslide and needs to move massive boulders now. The initial ability combination would allow them to move boulders up to 9,000 metric tons (15 meters in radius).

How many teens experience something similar? Even so, wouldn't Super ST (I don't want to be crushed - must be able to support weight), TK (mental lift), Innate Attack (destroy/deflect), or even just a power to get out of the way be much, much more likely then "hmm, where can I send this where it won't hurt anyone - orbit! nah, Mars! glad I can send it an absurd distance away!"

Other options would be an adolescent who wants to be a Navy captain being filled so much with desire during a tour of a naval ship that they accidentally teleport it home.

I suspect they would warp to the ship rather than bring it home. Unless you live in the middle of a harbor you can't really use a naval ship at home.

When it comes to Lifting ST, BL increases when you use Super-Effort, which increases Warp capacity (the restriction that Super-Effort only effects Warp capacity is limited to Super-Effort on Will for mental carrying capacity).

Super-Effort does not modify your BL. Instead it's your new "extra effort" value for any time you use extra effort. Since extra effort doesn't usually matter to Warp, this is a rather strange way to handle things especially if you allow the modifier to pull double duty to increase your lifting capacity as well as your warping capacity.

[AlexanderHowl]

It literally says that is how it works (Supers, 29-30, and Powers, 58). Super-Effort increases effective Lifting ST level, which directly increases BL.

As for adolescent desires, being a spaceship captain was my number 1 desire from age 6 to age 18, and I imagine that I was not unique. Having the above ability would have been my every dream come true, as I could have traveled the stars. Heck, interplanetary/interstellar teleportation (either personal and as part of a ship) is one of the major tropes of science fiction.