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Old 11-26-2020, 10:32 PM   #11
Black Leviathan
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Default Re: Interrogation

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Originally Posted by GURPSFredo View Post
I'm really sorry but I can't find a single source that confirms this and furthermore it seems to have psychological consequences on the interrogator too.
Studies that indicate that torture isn't effective as a means for obtaining information only claim that torture as it's own means isn't effective. All interrogation involves putting a subject under strain. Physical discomfort is a highly effective method for breaking down resistance to cooperation. But simply torturing someone and asking them questions isn't especially more effective than just asking them questions alone. Interrogation requires both a tactic for breaking resistance and the skill at evaluating the condition of your subject.

I do disagree with the degree of bonus you get from torture. In reality sleep deprivation, drug use or psychological punishment is much more effective for producing accurate information than beating them.
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Old 11-26-2020, 11:35 PM   #12
khorboth
 
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Default Re: Interrogation

I have done a little googling around. I'm sure that won't do anything strange to my search history.

It seems like the biggest problem is getting false information. Perhaps the thing to do would be to give a small bonus, but make all lies inderscenable? Or maybe just very hard to discern? People in distress are hard to read, so that may be realistic.

On the other hand, this assumes a realistic approach. In most genres of movies and TV, torture totally works. On 24, he tortures 2 or 3 bad guys a day. In Zootopia, they torture a weasel for information which pans out. It's such a staple of fiction that it literally goes from terrorist-based action TV to Disney movies.
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Old 11-27-2020, 03:30 AM   #13
Prince Charon
 
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Default Re: Interrogation

In-game, how effective torture is really depends on how effective the GM decides it should be. In reality, it is simply not worth the costs (moral/ethical, social, time spent) or risks, unless the person using it values getting the answer they want to hear over getting a truthful answer. I have an article on this in my Five Earths thread (see .sig).
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Five Earths, All in a Row. Updated 9/28/2020: On Torture article has been posted.
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Old 11-27-2020, 06:02 AM   #14
cdru
 
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Default Re: Interrogation

Social Engineering introduces a rule where succeeding by 5 or more in an interrogation that includes torture (Or similiar stuff) will result in the victim saying what the interrogator wants to hear
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Old 11-27-2020, 06:18 AM   #15
WingedKagouti
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Default Re: Interrogation

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Originally Posted by Black Leviathan View Post
In reality sleep deprivation, drug use or psychological punishment is much more effective for producing accurate information than beating them.
Psyochological torture is still torture.
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Old 11-27-2020, 02:14 PM   #16
Flyndaran
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Default Re: Interrogation

And to add to that, what counts as torture for one person may not for another.
A few days without any human contact even of the internet kind would bore me, while it would likely be literally traumatizing to my hyper-social brother.
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Old 11-27-2020, 02:40 PM   #17
Stormcrow
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Default Re: Interrogation

"'Torture' does not necessarily mean thumbscrews and the rack. Exposing a prisoner to the object of his phobia... is an effective torture, as is a believable threat against a loved one."

GURPS gives a straight +6 to Interrogation when using torture, which suggests that in GURPS, "torture" is effective, though what GURPS considers torture for the purpose of this skill is not necessarily what people mean when they say that torture has not been shown to be effective in eliciting correct information. However, if a character really does use actual, physical torture, like thumbscrews and the rack, that's still a +6. That suggests that GURPS is not strictly following the idea that torture is ineffective.

All this tells me that the Interrogation skill and its torture modifier is not meant to be a perfect simulator of real-world methods of torture, but rather represents the sort of thing you get in movies and stories. Not necessarily "cinematic," but simplified.
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Old 11-27-2020, 07:44 PM   #18
GURPSFredo
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Default Re: Interrogation

First off, I've read what Prince Charon wrote about Torture in his Five Earths, All in a Row thread and that's pretty much what I've gathered from various sources.
Unfortunately, I'm currently swamped at work and can't dive in to find all the skills and mechanics that would realistically represent revised Interrogation but it seems to me that mostly everyone that had something to say about this subject agrees that bonus for torture is too high.
Also, I still think that Empathy should have been mentioned in the description of Interrogation (Low Empathy is mentioned).
I will, when I find the time, write up a proposal for a new Interrogation skill.
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Old 11-27-2020, 08:03 PM   #19
GURPSFredo
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Default Re: Interrogation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince Charon View Post
In-game, how effective torture is really depends on how effective the GM decides it should be.
'Your game, your rules' is a meaningless trope when talking about RAW.
I always liked GURPS for the way it simulates the reality and still manages to be playable.
But, on the other hand, I do like when we get an informed elaboration of rules (e.g. the rules about lighting that Anthony wrote).
My wish for GURPS is to be the best system that it can be. That's why I thought this subject was worth talking about.
Also, as a GM, any time I can replace breaking fingers with some smart roleplaying, I'll go for it. Also, I'm not saying that breaking fingers sometimes can't lead to great roleplaying.
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Old 11-28-2020, 08:44 AM   #20
fula farbrorn
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Default Re: Interrogation

Where Torture can work well is things like "give us your computer password" as you can verify it in real time. where it works really badly is "do you have anything planned against the great nation of snowdonia !" where it will take days or even months to corroborate.

The easier and faster you can make sure the answer is correct, the better of a option torture is.
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