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Old 11-25-2020, 10:24 PM   #111
Prince Charon
 
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Default Re: Ideas for Yrth

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Originally Posted by dataweaver View Post
True enough. Let's say, then, that these changes would make Yrth compatible with DF, so that virtually all of the DF material could be used in this updated version of Yrth.

And that isn't the primary goal of my suggestions; merely one of the goals.
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A few conversion charts and a few paragraphs here and there should cover the important stuff.
Probably. I think I mentioned earlier, though I'm not sure if it was in this thread, that one way to make a setting like Yrth work with DF is to turn the Clerics, Druids, and such into practitioners of religion-themed magical styles (and have people that are willing to teach healing spells to someone who isn't ordained or whatever being rare, or laws being written to protect state-sponsored religious orders). That depends on what aspects of DF the GM and players consider important, though.
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Old 11-25-2020, 11:09 PM   #112
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Default Re: Ideas for Yrth

One of the things I'm going for is to expand the kinds of supernatural powers available on Yrth: clerics who are just a style of mages isn't it. Clerics who actually serve gods and who gain power from that are a different matter.
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Old 11-26-2020, 09:02 AM   #113
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Default Re: Ideas for Yrth

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One of the things I'm going for is to expand the kinds of supernatural powers available on Yrth: clerics who are just a style of mages isn't it. Clerics who actually serve gods and who gain power from that are a different matter.
Only issue with having clerics serving power-granting gods is that it gets in the way of the intended design goal of having Yrth use real-world religions for the most part. That said, that was one of the reasons they added in Mystics, although even those are said to have "eccentric" powers not fully understood by wizards.

Mind you, there's ample room for Compromise. I've seen some "Priest-Wizard" conversions for the DF Cleric, for one. Alternatively, the Divine Favor system can be used to represent faith-powered, miracle-based "magic" that doesn't use the same framework as traditional spellcasting (and even has a DF option with the Saint profession from Pyramid 3_36.)
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Old 11-26-2020, 09:20 AM   #114
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Only issue with having clerics serving power-granting gods is that it gets in the way of the intended design goal of having Yrth use real-world religions for the most part. )
.....and some people didn't like that at the time and it hasn't grown on them since.

Enabling characters to treat religious issues as mundane and tactical was a small upside. This seems to be the biggest casualty of these planned changes.

I've never been interested in importing DF wholesale. At most I use DF as a source for things to bring back into Gurps.
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Old 11-26-2020, 10:01 AM   #115
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Default Re: Ideas for Yrth

Use of real-world religions isn't a showstopper for empowered clerics; the Holy Hunters supplement for Monster Hunters shows one way to do it (though in traditional fantasy terms, that's more of a Paladin-like thing than a Cleric). But like Fred just said, the idea of completely sidelining all but real-world religions on Yrth is one that many of us have never liked.

I'll add that keeping religions strictly mundane in a fantasy setting is something else that rubs me the wrong way. It's a “casualty” of my proposal because that was one of the things I wanted to do away with. One goal is to bring in alternatives to magic that have personality, so that the wielding of supernatural forces isn't solely the fantasy equivalent of science and engineering. This means gods and spirits.

But it differs from most fantasy worlds in that the gods and spirits are new arrivals who have only been around for a decade or so; and that leads to a very different dynamic between them and the people of Yrth. That, and I'm figuring that the gods of Loren'dil, Gabrook, and Olokun haven't actually come to Yrth; they've just extended their influence to Yrth through their agents (e.g., angels, demons, and clerics).

Conversely, there should still be a place for the “science of magic” approach, which is why I didn't propose, for instance, an “Awakening” of the Mana on Yrth or otherwise changing how standard magic works. Wizards still find that their magic works the same as always; it's just that wizards now have competition from the likes of clerics, druids, shamans, and so on.
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Old 11-26-2020, 10:11 AM   #116
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Default Re: Ideas for Yrth

I personally like the, "Gods aren't real, or at least not actively participating," aspect of Yrth, so when I ran DF-y Yrth I chose to keep it, but I could definitely see it working either way. Matter of taste.

If I was going to make gods who are "native" to Earth active participants on Yrth, I would definitely make the gods followed by other transplanted people active there too, though*. Too fun not to, IMHO. Plus the gods of Olokun are heavily implied to be very active there, and if Jehovah / Allah / Etc is throwing his hat in the ring on Yrth why wouldn't they? Kind of on the fence about The Eternal, I could go either way on that. On the one hand, if you want the full DF experience, that comes with Druids, but on the other it'd be kind of fun in my mind for the Elves, Dwarves, and Orcs to be the odd man out in that department so to speak, either because the Eternal actually isn't real or just chooses to remain on the sidelines.

* Except Algan (aka: Kobold Jesus). He just doesn't exist. Poor Kobolds.

Last edited by Gold & Appel Inc; 11-26-2020 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 11-27-2020, 10:44 PM   #117
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One alternative "gods of Yrth" option I've considered, and that I've seen suggested elsewhere, is using the Archangels and Demon Princes of In Nomine on Yrth, via the newly opened Gateways basically opening it up.

Back on the old In Nomine mailing list, I remember someone, I think S. John Ross, creating snippets of stories tying various Fantasy Folk races to one Archangel patron; David creating the Dwarves, Marc creating the Goblins (by trading parts with other Archangels), Michael patronizing the Halflings (because he has plenty of soldiers, but needed quartermasters), and Ellylons being patronized/created by Laurence. Who are that small because, as the Ellylons like to brag, "he didn't want to give us TOO much of an advantage."

I guess I just want to preserve the pseudo-medieval feel of Yrth, and I feel like having the established Christian, Muslim and Jewish faiths get displaced by Pelor or Iomedae or Talos, just kinda feels out of place to me.

If other people are comfortable doing that in their games, that's fine. But I wouldn't do it in my own version of Yrth, that's all.
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Old 12-04-2020, 08:20 PM   #118
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Another possibility for Yttarria is the introduction of new ideas. This is hard of course. Yttarria is an Agrarian society and one based on the labor of peasants. The peasantry always lives on a narrow margin, since most experiments don't pan out, most peasants end up rejecting anything but knee-jerk conservatism as a survival measure.

Still, the introduction of radical new ideas could transform the setting.

Try this, allow the Banestorm to bring a group of Diggers to Yttarria. Have a disillusioned Dark Elf Bard be the first person they run into. Let the Bard see the Digger's primitive anarchism as elflike. This inspires the Bard to aid the diggers to promote their ideas.

Introducing a movement of peasant radicals into Yttarria will make everybody in the Yttarrian power structures wildly paranoid. The mixture will end uo as Knightpunk.
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Old 12-04-2020, 08:39 PM   #119
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All of Yttarria is in an uproar when the banestorm drops cabaret chicks on ice all across the continent. Can the church withstand such lasciviousness? Can the magic of ice dance contend with dark sorcery? And who is this Ilsa who's appeared in the north and is rapidly consolidating the barbarian lands under her icy grip?

On a more serious note, one could treat the hermetic / clerical magic divide as a simple matter of who has access to the spells in order to teach them to students and incompatability of method.
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Old 12-05-2020, 08:29 AM   #120
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Default Re: Ideas for Yrth

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Another possibility for Yttarria is the introduction of new ideas. This is hard of course. Yttarria is an Agrarian society and one based on the labor of peasants. The peasantry always lives on a narrow margin, since most experiments don't pan out, most peasants end up rejecting anything but knee-jerk conservatism as a survival measure.

Still, the introduction of radical new ideas could transform the setting.

Try this, allow the Banestorm to bring a group of Diggers to Yttarria. Have a disillusioned Dark Elf Bard be the first person they run into. Let the Bard see the Digger's primitive anarchism as elflike. This inspires the Bard to aid the diggers to promote their ideas.

Introducing a movement of peasant radicals into Yttarria will make everybody in the Yttarrian power structures wildly paranoid. The mixture will end uo as Knightpunk.
So, they'd run an anarcho-syndicalist commune, taking it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week, and complain about how they didn't vote for the Emperor?
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