What Do You Want For Yrth

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by CraigM

I've no idea if this had any influence at all at the time of writing, but one of the things I love about Yrth is that it makes it possible to include atheist characters without that being a ridiculous thing. In a D&D style Gods-as-monsters setting, disbelief is absurd.

Not really. It's absurd to disbelieve in the existence of those entities, but it's perfectly possible to hold that they aren't gods.

[CraigM]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Not really. It's absurd to disbelieve in the existence of those entities, but it's perfectly possible to hold that they aren't gods.

Disbelief is different from belief-with-condemnation.

The second is possible with both Gods-as-monsters and realistic religion. It's why you get counter-cults in most Earth religions.

Realistic disbelief requires a world in which you're not likely to run into the non-existent entity as a dungeon encounter.

[sir_pudding]

Golarion has the militant atheist nation of Rahadoum.

Originally Posted by CraigM

Disbelief is different from belief-with-condemnation.

It is possible to have disbelief without condemnation. I acknowledge that the Kumari definitely exists, and I don't condemn her, but I also don't believe she is a manifestation of the supreme creator, or actually divine at all. In a fantasy game you could acknowledge that the "gods" exist, not condemn them, but still think that they aren't actually worth worshipping. This seems especially viable in settings where gods are powered by belief.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Not really. It's absurd to disbelieve in the existence of those entities, but it's perfectly possible to hold that they aren't gods.

It's only absurd if gods do not regularly walk among mortals undisguised. If only a select few have seen them and known who they were then it becomes plausible.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

It's only absurd if gods do not regularly walk among mortals undisguised. If only a select few have seen them and known who they were then it becomes plausible.

If gods grant superpowers (D&D clerics), there's obviously something to them, even if you've never seen it personified.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Anthony

If gods grant superpowers (D&D clerics), there's obviously something to them, even if you've never seen it personified.

D&D clerics can have spells granted by a philosophy too, so it isn't especially clear the god is all that essential.

[ravenfish]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

D&D clerics can have spells granted by a philosophy too, so it isn't especially clear the god is all that essential.

And this is all in a world where spellcasting can be granted by study , heredity, being close to nature, being good at music...

Moreover, in a world with actual magic, there's always the question of "How do we know he's a god and not just a really powerful wizard?". Parting the red sea becomes less impressive when a substantial minority of humanity can learn how to control water with a bit of study.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by ravenfish

Moreover, in a world with actual magic, there's always the question of "How do we know he's a god and not just a really powerful wizard?". Parting the red sea becomes less impressive when a substantial minority of humanity can learn how to control water with a bit of study.

In Golarion, Razmir is the "living god" of a pyramid scheme run by wizard conmen.

[David Johansen]

Of course, atheists in the Disc World can expect a brick through their window. :D

I think that's a bit of an answer for most worlds. The gods of the Disc take their cue from the gods of Lankhmar who have, at least, limited power to mess with their followers.

All told, one might well represent monotheistic divine power with Luck and Unluck, perhaps tied to devotion to Disciplines of Faith. Alternately one might take the Delusion that failure is the result of sinful thoughts and success is the result of righteous actions. Of course, access to Divine Favour as a campaign feature should be spelled out to the players.

Magic muddies the waters of course. Especially on Yrth where there's magic but no obvious miraculous powers. Really, it's a testament to the power of the concept of religion that the existence of magic didn't simply make it irrelevant on Yrth. It goes beyond the intent of the author but the existence of a hell parallel that demons come from might well give some proof to the threatened afterlife.

[Kax]

Originally Posted by Anthony

If gods grant superpowers (D&D clerics), there's obviously something to them, even if you've never seen it personified.

Some spells are granted by spirits and ancestor spirits, too, and they aren't worshipped. Venerated, yes, but not necessarily worshipped.