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Old 08-30-2017, 03:52 AM   #11
RogerBW
 
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Default Re: Smart linking Turrets: If B-29 had them, then why not?

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Originally Posted by swordtart View Post
We rule that only a single turret is actually aimed (the others just track into it automatically). That means that you can use a single-weapon computer or cyberlink to fire that single weapon.
That is in UACFH:

Quote:
Originally Posted by p.49
SWCs cannot be used if the weapon it is to be attached to is Smart Linked to any other weapons
Cyberlinks are less clear, but "to one particular weapon (like the SWCs, p. 48)" (p. 41) suggests to me that they should be interpreted the same way.
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Old 08-30-2017, 06:21 AM   #12
swordtart
 
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Default Re: Smart linking Turrets: If B-29 had them, then why not?

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Originally Posted by Racer View Post
Our group ruled via 'Rule of Logic' that Cyberlinks & SWCs CAN'T be used in conjunction with Smartlinks & still retain their combat bonus.
Let's test that.

Let's say I have a vehicle with a pair of MGs linked F and a Pair of MGs linked in a turret. I could fit a SWC to the turret pair. If I then smart link the turret to the front MGs, I can aim the turret MGs into all arcs other F and claim the SWC bonus. If I fire the F MGs separately I don't gain anything for the SWC. Nothing contentious there I hope.

Why when firing to the front arc should I suddenly loose the benefit of the SWC on the turret? As I am not aiming the F MGs why cannot the smart link simply do it's job and fire at the same target as my MGs? As all weapons fired from links gain all the targeting modifiers of the aimed weapon then they get the bonus.

I disagree with UACFH (in many regards). I don't see a reason for them not to work and so in my game they do (YMMV)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer View Post
187+ Smart links
I am not sure you need that many. You wouldn't link the left weapons with the right ones for a start as it is highly unlikely a target would be in both arcs. Remember that smartlinks can be linked to smartlinks.

A 130 space tank is an odd example.

With a rig with a turret and 2 sponsons on the cab and two turrets and 5 sponsons on the trailer (which is not much fewer than your example) I generally only smart link in the following combinations.

Tractor:
Turret linked to left sponson.
Ditto for right side.
2 Smart links total.

Trailer:
3 Smartlinks between 3 left sponsons so that any left sponson can pass its targeting information to any of the others.

Smartlink from front turret to front left sponson. So that turret can pass its targeting information to the sponson (the sponsons link can then pass that information to the other sponson).

Smartlink from back turret to back left sponson.

5 smartlinks total

Ditto for right side

+5 smartlinks

Smartlink from back turret to back sponson.

+1 smartlink

That's 11 total + 2 for the cab.

If you really wanted to you could smartlink the trailers uppermost turret to the other one for just one more link and control all your trailer guns with one gunner controlling the uppermost turret. You could smartlink the uppermost turret to the tractor turret and control every turret and sponson on the rig using only 15 smart links.

In practice for flexibility we usually man the top turrets separately and triple the targets we can engage each turn (there is no point putting 20 spaces worth of weapons onto one bike).

Needless to say that uppermost turret needs to be well protected as if it gets destroyed you can only fire each turret individually.

Last edited by swordtart; 08-30-2017 at 06:27 AM.
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Old 08-30-2017, 09:36 AM   #13
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Default Re: Smart linking Turrets: If B-29 had them, then why not?

Actually I the Tank in question may of originally had SIX Turrets - AFVs can mount One Standard Car Wars Turret per 20 Hull Spaces ( round UP ) . That's possibly where the 187 came from ...

Reduced to Four Turrets due to complications & silliness ...

Still with it's Front mounted RFTG & multiple Anti Personal Weapons it was incredibly useful in City Fights - using the City Blocks Map Tiles or original maps drawn on large whiteprint sheets .
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Old 08-30-2017, 10:36 AM   #14
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Default Re: Smart linking Turrets: If B-29 had them, then why not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by swordtart View Post
Let's test that.

Let's say I have a vehicle with a pair of MGs linked F and a Pair of MGs linked in a turret. I could fit a SWC to the turret pair. If I then smart link the turret to the front MGs, I can aim the turret MGs into all arcs other F and claim the SWC bonus. If I fire the F MGs separately I don't gain anything for the SWC. Nothing contentious there I hope.

Why when firing to the front arc should I suddenly loose the benefit of the SWC on the turret? As I am not aiming the F MGs why cannot the smart link simply do it's job and fire at the same target as my MGs? As all weapons fired from links gain all the targeting modifiers of the aimed weapon then they get the bonus.
I'd actually argue that you don't lose them for the turret, but that the bonus doesn't apply to the Front MGs in this situation. The SWC isn't configured/built to provide a bonus to the front MGs. They're literally firing from a different position and the computer you're using isn't configured to improve the accuracy of the weapon from the other position, although the smart link allows them to be aimed at the same target.

Keep in mind that the text you're referring to says linked, which isn't necessarily the same as smart linked. The text actually predates the addition of smart links and single weapon computers to the game, and probably needed an update that it didn't get.
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Old 08-30-2017, 11:29 AM   #15
swordtart
 
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Default Re: Smart linking Turrets: If B-29 had them, then why not?

Except that no-one would argue that the bonus from a standard computer wouldn't apply to the smartlinked weapon.

A standard computer can be used with any weapon of any weapon type on the vehicle it is only limited to being used by a single operator.

The SWC can only be used with a single weapon type and in a single weapon position by a single operator. If you pay the extra for a link you can use it with two identical weapons in the same position. If you pay for a smartlink you should be able to use it with identical weapons in the one other position the smartlink is connected to.

I guess it depends on what you think that +1 is coming from. I think it is from extra cues to the gunner doing the targeting (and the Hi-Res version provides even better cues). I don't believe that it is affecting the electro-mechanical operation of the weapons to gain it's effect (or its bonus wouldn't apply to spotting rolls which are independent of any weapons). On that basis +1 should apply to everything he aims at.

I think this is a matter of belief however and we'll have to agree to disagree ;)
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Old 08-31-2017, 10:23 AM   #16
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Default Re: Smart linking Turrets: If B-29 had them, then why not?

Weapons at the same location have the same trajectory. If another weapon is in a different location, it's got a different elevation and azimuth, so it would need a different trajectory to hit the same target.
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Old 08-31-2017, 11:14 AM   #17
Racer
 
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Default Re: Smart linking Turrets: If B-29 had them, then why not?

As Cyberlinks are so seldom used these days - at least in the Arena & everyday Road Combat - that an exception could be made for it ? Up to individual Duelmaster of course .
With ANDICE , Link-Ups , other Cybernetics from ADQ 7/3 and all those lovely items from the NOVA pages - Battle Computers , Virtual Reality Computers , Military Cyberlinks , etc etc - the extensive sensor/computer processing power of those items ( not to mention expense ... ) should let identical weapons in multiple locations to be used in conjunction with any Smart links AND still retain their full bonuses .

Again up to individual players but makes for much more exciting games !! Lol
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Old 08-31-2017, 11:34 AM   #18
Magesmiley
 
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Default Re: Smart linking Turrets: If B-29 had them, then why not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer View Post
As Cyberlinks are so seldom used these days - at least in the Arena & everyday Road Combat - that an exception could be made for it ? Up to individual Duelmaster of course .
With ANDICE , Link-Ups , other Cybernetics from ADQ 7/3 and all those lovely items from the NOVA pages - Battle Computers , Virtual Reality Computers , Military Cyberlinks , etc etc - the extensive sensor/computer processing power of those items ( not to mention expense ... ) should let identical weapons in multiple locations to be used in conjunction with any Smart links AND still retain their full bonuses .

Again up to individual players but makes for much more exciting games !! Lol
Cyberlinks are the best targeting systems one can buy. That's why they're so expensive. They shouldn't be that common.
An extra +1 when you're probably already on the favorable side of 7 on the bell curve should be expensive.
As to adding an exception for combining it with a smart link? I wouldn't allow it in my games. A +3 combined with even the skills a basic character has all dumped into gunner yields a +5 to hit. That's a lot by any measure. And giving the bonus to weapons at multiple locations? A bit too much for me. Keep it expensive (I would probably allow a second cyberlink fto be used or those who had to have the additional bonus for a smart linked weapon though).
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Old 08-31-2017, 01:55 PM   #19
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Default Re: Smart linking Turrets: If B-29 had them, then why not?

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Originally Posted by brionl View Post
Weapons at the same location have the same trajectory. If another weapon is in a different location, it's got a different elevation and azimuth, so it would need a different trajectory to hit the same target.
Yes but as the gunner isn't in the same position as either set of weapons, the basic targeting systems must be capable of calculating the offset. For a basic targeting computer (or no computer) there is no penalty for firing either set.

It's just additional plumbing ;)
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Old 08-31-2017, 11:19 PM   #20
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Default Re: Smart linking Turrets: If B-29 had them, then why not?

Cyberlinks are just too expensive - especially if they're like a single-weapon computer. I wouldn't impose that restriction.

As for smart linked turrets - I doubt they intended for two turrets to be smart linked - the smart link was clearly designed for the 'Hammer' or 'Superflash' style car with two weapons front and a weapon in the turret.
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