Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > Roleplaying in General

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-25-2017, 01:39 PM   #11
Mike Wightman
 
Mike Wightman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Best Near Future game background - what is it?

Athletes and sportsmen and women will routinely use chemical and biological enhancements to gain an edge in competition.

Not one, ever, has had their healthy legs removed below the knee to compete.

We currently use mechanical prosthesis to replace damaged body parts because we lack the technology to grow new body parts or persuade our bodies to regrow damaged limbs. The technology will come, and when it does more people will be accepting of biological replacement parts than mechanical ones. In my opinion and in my setting that is how it is.
Mike Wightman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2017, 01:51 PM   #12
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: Best Near Future game background - what is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Wightman View Post
Not one, ever, has had their healthy legs removed below the knee to compete.
That seems like an issue unrelated to the specific technology. People, I think, are just as unlikely to amputate healthy limbs in order to replace them with transgenic ones. That PCs in RPGs will do this with both cyber and meat is probably because they are paper men and games generally don't model any of the reasons why you don't want to do this very well, while quantifying the plusses you get for doing this much more precisely than any benefit is ever clear in real life.

Mainly, though, AI (weak AI certainly) seems more likely to continue be a thing in the near future than transgenic parahumans are. Nobody seems to be really effectively doing anything about stopping self-driving cars, but they have mostly stopped designer babies cold. This doesn't really seem like a thing that is going to completely reverse any time soon.
sir_pudding is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2017, 02:27 AM   #13
vicky_molokh
GURPS FAQ Keeper
 
vicky_molokh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyv, Ukraine
Default Re: Best Near Future game background - what is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
That seems like an issue unrelated to the specific technology. People, I think, are just as unlikely to amputate healthy limbs in order to replace them with transgenic ones. That PCs in RPGs will do this with both cyber and meat is probably because they are paper men and games generally don't model any of the reasons why you don't want to do this very well, while quantifying the plusses you get for doing this much more precisely than any benefit is ever clear in real life.
People do kill their immune systems to replace them with transplanted ones IRL, though. Not that it's a common occurrence, but it does happen.
__________________
Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ and uFAQ Keeper
Also, GURPS Discord is a nice place for (faster) Q&A and overall GURPS dicussion.
vicky_molokh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2017, 02:35 AM   #14
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: Best Near Future game background - what is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
People do kill their immune systems to replace them with transplanted ones IRL, though. Not that it's a common occurrence, but it does happen.
Healthy immune systems? Why?
sir_pudding is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2017, 04:43 AM   #15
vicky_molokh
GURPS FAQ Keeper
 
vicky_molokh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyv, Ukraine
Default Re: Best Near Future game background - what is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Healthy immune systems? Why?
Not fully healthy, but not fully 'dead' ones either, as far as I recall, to be replaced with better/healthier ones. That seems to correspond pretty closely to 'amputate a damaged but not destroyed limb, replace with a prosthetic'.
(I don't remember whether people ever destroyed 100% healthy immune systems to replace them with those compatible with another transplanted organ. Maybe yes, maybe no.)
__________________
Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ and uFAQ Keeper
Also, GURPS Discord is a nice place for (faster) Q&A and overall GURPS dicussion.
vicky_molokh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2017, 05:37 AM   #16
Daigoro
 
Daigoro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Meifumado
Default Re: Best Near Future game background - what is it?

I don't get the same sense of identity from my immune system that I do from my hands, feet or face though. If a clever doctor offered to replace it to fix up a few ailments, I wouldn't miss the old immune system.
__________________
World Wikis:
Cyberpunk: Duopoly Nation
Fantasy: Dominion Cross
Space Opera: Behind the King's Eclipse
Steampunk: Colonial Steam
Daigoro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2017, 05:55 AM   #17
vicky_molokh
GURPS FAQ Keeper
 
vicky_molokh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyv, Ukraine
Default Re: Best Near Future game background - what is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
I don't get the same sense of identity from my immune system that I do from my hands, feet or face though.
I can sort of understand associating the sense of identity with the face (somewhat - most people's faces change drastically throughout life anyway), but hands or feet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
If a clever doctor offered to replace it to fix up a few ailments, I wouldn't miss the old immune system.
But for some reason you would miss replaced bad organs like hands or teeth?

----

I think a large issue with reluctance of replacement is that people have an instinctive negative reaction towards the idea of needing to damage oneself before getting better (which has quite understandable origins!).
__________________
Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ and uFAQ Keeper
Also, GURPS Discord is a nice place for (faster) Q&A and overall GURPS dicussion.
vicky_molokh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2017, 07:07 AM   #18
Daigoro
 
Daigoro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Meifumado
Default Re: Best Near Future game background - what is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
I can sort of understand associating the sense of identity with the face (somewhat - most people's faces change drastically throughout life anyway), but hands or feet?
Hands, certainly. "To know something like the back of my hand" is an expression that indicates how familiar we are with them. I'd argue they're the body part you're most accustomed to seeing and knowing in minute detail.

Feet- maybe not so much, but the new ones would have to replicate my accustomed "walk-feel" pretty closely.

Quote:
But for some reason you would miss replaced bad organs like hands or teeth?
There's still a bit of a jump between hands and the immune system. Where is your immune system? What does it look or feel like?
Teeth are a bit different. You don't see your own very often, and they're more likely to be giving you problems to make you want to replace them.
__________________
World Wikis:
Cyberpunk: Duopoly Nation
Fantasy: Dominion Cross
Space Opera: Behind the King's Eclipse
Steampunk: Colonial Steam
Daigoro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2017, 07:44 AM   #19
vicky_molokh
GURPS FAQ Keeper
 
vicky_molokh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyv, Ukraine
Default Re: Best Near Future game background - what is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
Hands, certainly. "To know something like the back of my hand" is an expression that indicates how familiar we are with them. I'd argue they're the body part you're most accustomed to seeing and knowing in minute detail.

Feet- maybe not so much, but the new ones would have to replicate my accustomed "walk-feel" pretty closely.


There's still a bit of a jump between hands and the immune system. Where is your immune system? What does it look or feel like?
Teeth are a bit different. You don't see your own very often, and they're more likely to be giving you problems to make you want to replace them.
I know the back of my hand worse than I know my laptop's keyboard, yet I do replace keyboards. Conversely, I don't know what my subconsciousness is 'like' (by definition, by its distinction from consciousness), but I'd rather not replace it.

To answer about my immune system: it's fiddly and flawed, prone to letting colds through a lot (though not as much lately) and with a bunch of strongly-held misconceptions about certain plant-produced chemicals (likewise not as badly nowadays as past years). At a minimum, it's one that is recognizable if placed in a lineup with the immune systems of most of my acquaintances.
__________________
Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ and uFAQ Keeper
Also, GURPS Discord is a nice place for (faster) Q&A and overall GURPS dicussion.
vicky_molokh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2017, 08:52 AM   #20
hal
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
Default Re: Best Near Future game background - what is it?

Ok - seeing some of the comments, especially concerning the use of AI in combat...

What is the difference between tele-operated predators in the air and future "Land-Predators" on the ground? If one used the tele-operation rules from TRANSHUMAN SPACE, it could be used for say, construction of space habitats without requiring a space habitat for workers. It would have political ramifications in that troops would no longer be "Meat" but expendable robotics. One wonders what can be done with a captured Land-Predator, and how one would bypass any security features that would be attempted to keep Land Predators out of the wrong hands.

Here's a thought. Take a hard look at GURPS ULTRATECH, and see what things listed, could make life easier for the average man, but could also be abused to the detriment of the common man.

Something as simple as monitoring social media is already being done by government agencies today (Disease control trying to find infected personnel is already being done today, not to mention law enforcement). Having a "Google Glasses" in the form of a contact lens would also prove to be interesting. Facial recognition software when coupled with "anti-crime" sensors (read that as cameras) could be used to the detriment of people's liberties, but also be touted as an anti-crime deterrent. You have to give up a little privacy to have security right?

What if the government decided that in order to qualify for the basic living allowance for unemployed personnel - that you had to wear an RFID chip? What if smart card technology became the means by which financial transactions were conducted in the future and "Money" as we know it begins to disappear? There's talk about doing away with pennies in the United States because the cost to produce pennies is more than the value of the pennies themselves. GURPS CYBERWORLD has thoughts on that as well.

Ironically - the idea of the United States government going the route it does in GURPS CYBERWORLD seems far fetched to some, but if you look back at what happened 30 years ago in politics and watching people get away with things that 30 years ago, would never have survived - follow the trend and wonder just how far down that slope politicians are willing to go as long as they're the protected class (laws are for little people)?

In the end? The idea of having a game world to play in, isn't to make it a dark future in which no one can win. It is about placing characters in a spot where they have to make decisions, and resolve issues or even solve issues to the best of their abilities. What if Singapore allowed minor cloning procedures to be done, but that the United States did not? What if a man went to Singapore to get something done, and crosses the border into America as a result of trying to save a son? (Yes, CENTURY CITY pilot episode!). I find it ironic that in another episode involving an abusive lawyer (abusive to his assistants), the Firm forced him to take on what was functionally, an AI secretary. Those are the kinds of scenarios that will highlight several issues that our player characters might have to face in a sanitized fictional "Night City". THAT is why I was hoping that others could point me in a direction for what they like and suggest options for a timeline 30 years into the future. Some of us were 18 in the 70's and are now in our fifties today. We've grown up with Records, then Cassettes, then CD's. How ironic to see Records come back to some extent, as an analog superior product to CD's. I've watched society change from being conservative where it comes to marriage and who can do so, to what it has become today. Watching a TV show that involves polygamy would have been unthinkable in the 70's. Watching reality shows with the Kardashians would have been unthinkable. Today, the changes aren't even remarked upon. The stuff that could be found on the Internet was totally unexpected by those of the 1970's to be sure! Today, medical science has become way ahead of the curve than what it was in the 70's. Face transplants weren't even thought of as viable, yet we've had one successful instance of it in today's times.

Would the creation of sentient AI's trigger a new "Anti-slavery" sentiment as postulated in TRANSHUMAN SPACE? Can a man create an android that for all intents and purposes, looks human - and abuse it in ways that are against the law in most polite/civilized society? THS explores many of these themes depending on whether the GM and players want to explore it. CYBERPUNK stories abound where there is an AI that people mistake for being human, and fall in love with it. Even today, there are those in Japan who purchase surrogate *cough* Partners that they like and take about them as if they were starring in a "Weekend at Bernies" style life. Today it may seem odd, but in 30 years, powered by automation and AI's, what might some of those artificial companions be like?

What changes might society undergo if/when reliable birth control exists for men? What changes might come into being if THE MOON IS A HARSH MISTRESS is the template by which some societies are modeled upon? Group marriages, Line Marriages, etc might make things look extremely odd - but they won't necessarily be "Main stream society" (yet).

So, getting ideas from books, movies, and even simple discussions here is helpful, for which I'd like to say "thanks guys". Years ago, I'd never have even considered the use of a Basic Living Stipend for gaming purposes. I'd never have considered the use of recreational drugs as being a good thing. Now, looking at trends, I'd wonder if the Government would legalize drugs, or research drugs that keep the unemployed class of people "docile". So what if it has long term effects that inhibit ambition or intelligence? The only people using it are the very ones who have no need for those attributes, and would only cause competition for scarce jobs right? ;)

Mind you, I'm playing the Devil's advocate here, not saying that I believe things to be morally reprehensible or even unlikely or even highly likely. I have a saying in my group that if the GM forces his players to hit the "I believe" button too often, it destroys the immersive effect of role playing. Same with movies. If the movie is exciting and over the top and people like it, great, that's good for them. But if watching the same movie I have to hit the "I believe" button over and over and over - I don't like it. I watched the MUSKETEER years back and thought "Oh come on!" The screen writer wrote in a scene in which our hero is suspended from the top of a fortification tower by means of a rope, and rather than simply cut his rope from the top and let him plunge to his death, three bad guys lower themselves via rope and fence to the death with him. SERIOUSLY? ;)

So, electric cars driving by AI's? We're experimenting with it now. Can I have fun with the hero when the car is hacked or the AI is technically driven insane? Can I have an AI controlled car chase down a player character like a bull because the player character insulted the car itself? Well, I might draw the line there! Might I have solar power generation from space be beamed to the surface of a desert via microwaves? Sure, if the power generation was in excess of what orbital factories making TL 9 materials or TL 10 materials need to function. Would I use THE MILLENNIAL PROJECT as something worth inserting into the game? Probably in a HEART BEAT! Floating Islands made of Seacrete and having food production facilities floating about and using Ocean Thermal power plants is kind of a neat thought. Those who want to go totally vegan might even go for the process. Whole new industries that cater to the taste buds to manufacture chemical tastes so that a Vegan can enjoy an algae burger that tastes like <fill in blank, I don't know what Vegan's like!>. Access to cheap food alternatives might make farming of grazing animals less profitable, and thereby cut it down significantly.

There are a LOT of things one can postulate and see where it goes in a near future sci-fi. The GM just has to have a big enough imagination is all.
hal is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.