Follow-Up Question

[JanMikal]

I am GMing a game in which one of my players has an Elemental Earth power. We have been going round and round for the better part of an hour over Fragmentation and Follow-Up

What she wants is a Piercing++ Innate Attack that does its 2d damage, and then fragments INSIDE the target (assuming that any of the 2d damage gets through the target's DR). We're just having trouble following the Follow-Up rules. Could someone explain them, step by step, in clear and concise terms?

[Phantasm]

Follow-Up is damage that's applied after an attack penetrates DR.

Let's do 2d pi++ w/ a 1d+1 cut ex followup against someone in, say a DR 6 Kevlar vest.

I just rolled an 11. That 11 is subtracted by 6 for 5 damage that gets through the vest, which being pi++ is multiplied by 2 for 10 damage.

Then the follow-up happens. Follow-up is not affected by DR, as it happens after the initial damage penetrates. I rolled a 7 for that, which is max damage. :]

The guy takes 7 cutting damage internally, which is multiplied by 1.5 for 11. It's also an internal explosion, which I need to look up, but typically isn't pretty.

Clear as mud?

[Nereidalbel]

Internal explosions are 3x wounding. Effectively, they're automatic vitals hits, regardless of damage type.

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

Internal explosions are 3x wounding. Effectively, they're automatic vitals hits, regardless of damage type.

Yeah, and that turns the 7 cut ex damage into 21, not the 11 into 33.

Probably why they tend not to use explosive on any types of follow-up save crushing damage, because it doesn't really make much sense.

If it wasn't an explosive follow-up, it'd be 11 damage; if it's explosive, it's 21 damage.

Either way, chances are this guy's rolling to stay alive.

[JanMikal]

I think I may have been unclear - I appreciate the examples, but I'm looking for how to BUILD the power, not use it. I maintain that it would be a 2d pi++ Innate Attack, and aware about damage multiplication for damage type, but I'm not sure how to attach the Follow-Up. Would it be an entirely different, second Innate Attack (cutting) with Follow-Up as a modifier? The rules for building and applying a Follow Up attack aren't very clear as I read them.

[Nereidalbel]

You buy your Cutting Attack with Explosive and Follow-Up. Those are the only modifiers required.

Originally Posted by Basic p105

The cost of Follow-Up equals the sum of the costs of whichever of the following modifiers apply to the carrier attack: Always On, Aura, Cone, Drifting, Emanation, Emergencies Only, Extra Recoil, Guided, Homing, Increased Range, Jet, Limited Use, Malediction, Melee Attack, Preparation Required, Rapid Fire, Reduced Range, Takes Extra Time, Takes Recharge, Unconscious Only, Uncontrollable, or Unreliable. If none of these modifiers apply to the carrier attack, Follow-Up costs +0%. Note that the Follow-Up attack itself cannot take any of these modifiers. Only its carrier attack may have them.

And there's how you price it.

[JanMikal]

So, in short, I would buy the original Innate Attack (pi++, 2d), and then I would buy another Innate Attack (cutting, 2d) and attach Follow-Up to it (setting Explosive aside for now - that really wouldn't be necessary)?

Here's the thing that kept tripping us up: we originally were looking at the Fragmentation enhancement until she got the idea of having the attack fragment inside the victim, and it reads, in the Fragmentation text: "If you
apply it to an attack with Follow-Up (p. 105), penetration indicates the
fragments automatically hit the victim but no one else." Now, if I took a 2nd Cutting Attack as a Follow-Up for the initial Pi++ Attack, why would it ever matter that Fragmentation would automatically hit the victim? As a Follow-Up, wouldn't the second attack ALREADY always hit the victim? I'm pretty bewildered here.

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by JanMikal

So, in short, I would buy the original Innate Attack (pi++, 2d), and then I would buy another Innate Attack (cutting, 2d) and attach Follow-Up to it (setting Explosive aside for now - that really wouldn't be necessary)?

Here's the thing that kept tripping us up: we originally were looking at the Fragmentation enhancement until she got the idea of having the attack fragment inside the victim, and it reads, in the Fragmentation text: "If you
apply it to an attack with Follow-Up (p. 105), penetration indicates the
fragments automatically hit the victim but no one else." Now, if I took a 2nd Cutting Attack as a Follow-Up for the initial Pi++ Attack, why would it ever matter that Fragmentation would automatically hit the victim? As a Follow-Up, wouldn't the second attack ALREADY always hit the victim? I'm pretty bewildered here.

Normally, Fragmentation would follow the rules for it as outline in Basic. On Follow-Up attacks, the victim is the only one hit by the damage from your Fragmentation modifier.

In your situation, let's say you have 2d on all attacks. You would roll 2d Pi++ vs DR. If that passes DR by even 1 point, you roll 2d Cut, ignoring DR. Then, because your "carrier" attack passed DR, your 2d Fragmentation deals another 2d Cut, also ignoring DR.

If the Dice Gods smite you and your 2d Pi++ rolls a mere 2 damage and fails to pass DR, both the Cutting Attack and Fragmentation damage roll vs DR.

[T.K.]

Let's seeee...

There are 2 ways I see we can build this

Method 1

For your specific case this would be faster and easier, I believe.

From Innate Attack (Basic p. 61)

- Piercing (pi++) [8/level] > Since you want 2D, that's be 2 levels for 16pts.

- Add "Damage Modifiers" enhancement (Basic p. 104), specifically Fragmentation (frag) [+15%/die].

For 2D frag damage, that'll be +30%.

16 * 1,30 = 21pts (rounded up)

So, this is the bare backbone of what you asked. This will throw a pi++ missile dealing 2D, upon hitting frags for 2D, following normal fragmentation rules and if the first attack pierces RD it auto-hits the frag, as described under the Damage Modifiers: Fragmentation.


Method 2

This is the method to build a "generic" attack with follow-up if you want the follow-up to be something else instead of frag, for example.

First you build the carrier attack:

From Innate Attack (Basic p. 61)

- Piercing (pi++) [8/level] > Since you want 2D, that's be 2 levels for 16pts.

This is your "earth missile" backbone.

Next you build your follow-up attack:

From Innate Attack (Basic p. 61)

- Cutting (cut) [7/level] > Let's say you want some nasty damage, even stronger then the missile damage for 3D, that'll be 3 levels and thus 21pts.

Next you need to "link" them with Follow-Up:

- Since the carrier attack doesn't have any of the enhancements/limitations cited under the Follow-Up rules, the cost for Follow-up in this case would be +0%.

The product of this is an attack that:

Costs [37]
Upon first hit does 2D pi++
After first hit, it auto-hits for 3D cut damage (no explosion, no frag or anything)

As a Follow-up attack, if you pierce RD with the first attack does dealing Injury with it, the Follow-up attack would hit inside the target, does dealing extra damage as vitals.

If you REALLY want the Follow-up Attack to be an explosion (exploding for yards, with starting point from inside the target) you can:

- Add to the 3D secondary attack, Explosion (exp) +50%/level, under Damage Modifiers as well.