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Old 04-13-2019, 07:55 PM   #1
Mike P.
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Running Talent in Legacy Edition

Do any of you like the way Running worked in original TFT, i.e. + 2 MA regardless of what armor is worn? Or do you prefer the legacy edition where Running only gives you +2 MA in leather or lighter armor?

I think Legacy Edition Running might be more realistic, but I'm leaning toward using original TFT Running in my campaign. It seems harsh that your MA in chainmail or heavier armor will never be more than 6 without magical assistance. In all the TFT campaigns I have been in or run since the early 80s, I would estimate that less than 10% of the PCs actually had chain or heavier armor, and those that did almost inevitably had Running to boost their MA up to 8.
Of course original TFT was a lot more cutthroat than Legacy Edition, in that the XPs gained were directly related to your combat prowess. If you were slower in DX and MA than your comrades, you almost always gained less XP, as your faster friends could engage the enemy quicker, outflank them, and "steal" the DX bonuses for delivering the killing blows.
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Old 04-13-2019, 07:59 PM   #2
Shostak
 
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Default Re: Running Talent in Legacy Edition

I preferred the +2MA regardless of armor.
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Old 04-13-2019, 11:08 PM   #3
JLV
 
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Default Re: Running Talent in Legacy Edition

We had a long discussion of this somewhere back around the beginning of 2018, but what it boiled down to, as I recall, was that the running talent really wouldn't increase your speed so much as it would your endurance when you are wearing heavy armor (chain and above). So really, the difference was more suitable for GURPS than it was for TFT. The upshot, I think, was the new running rule to increase your speed at the lighter encumbrance styles, and kind of ignore it for heavier armors. If you want to give your heavier guys an advantage, you could always say they require less rest to restore fatigue (assuming you track anything like that -- again, that's more a "GURPS thing" IMO), which would be a fair gesture.

Having said all of that, I can certainly see retaining the old rule, despite it's lack of "realism," simply because it makes it a more fun talent for folks to pick. That seems entirely in keeping with "fun is paramount" theory of RPG-ing! ;-)
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Old 04-14-2019, 01:56 AM   #4
FireHorse
 
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Default Re: Running Talent in Legacy Edition

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Originally Posted by JLV View Post
We had a long discussion of this somewhere back around the beginning of 2018, but what it boiled down to, as I recall, was that the running talent really wouldn't increase your speed so much as it would your endurance when you are wearing heavy armor (chain and above).
Would it belabor the point to ask why endurance matters? (…he asked nonchalantly, feigning an innocent smile.)
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Old 04-14-2019, 02:20 AM   #5
JLV
 
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Default Re: Running Talent in Legacy Edition

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Originally Posted by FireHorse View Post
Would it belabor the point to ask why endurance matters? (…he asked nonchalantly, feigning an innocent smile.)
I believe I made that point...if you read my comment that it really applies more to GURPS than TFT.
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Old 04-14-2019, 03:14 AM   #6
FireHorse
 
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Default Re: Running Talent in Legacy Edition

Yes, I know, but I wasn't tweaking at you — I was only pretending not to be addressing the Fourth Wall. :)

I know the TFT system is designed to be ultra-simple, but when I dig into the works, I find these stray cogs and gears that seem to imply (or invite?) a bit more complexity than is actually being employed. Fatigue / Endurance is an example.
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Old 04-14-2019, 05:32 AM   #7
oldwolf
 
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Default Re: Running Talent in Legacy Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLV View Post
We had a long discussion of this somewhere back around the beginning of 2018, but what it boiled down to, as I recall, was that the running talent really wouldn't increase your speed so much as it would your endurance when you are wearing heavy armor (chain and above). So really, the difference was more suitable for GURPS than it was for TFT. The upshot, I think, was the new running rule to increase your speed at the lighter encumbrance styles, and kind of ignore it for heavier armors. If you want to give your heavier guys an advantage, you could always say they require less rest to restore fatigue (assuming you track anything like that -- again, that's more a "GURPS thing" IMO), which would be a fair gesture.

Having said all of that, I can certainly see retaining the old rule, despite it's lack of "realism," simply because it makes it a more fun talent for folks to pick. That seems entirely in keeping with "fun is paramount" theory of RPG-ing! ;-)
That is interesting, I would think the opposite, running talent would affect short term speed, essentially sprinting, but fail at endurance when considering armor. Why? Because armor along with the thick padding that goes under it causes overheating. Consider modern American Football players, they have great sprint ability but they will die running a marathon in full gear.

Bearing that in mind, all the types of armor are horrible at letting out heat. Well, real armor, fantasy chainmail bikinis probably not. That said, Running talent probably should give its bonus no matter what armor is worn, assuming it is training for using armor: sprints, quick changes of direction, agility, etc while carrying a load. If Running Talent represents marathon training, it might not give any bonus regarding armor.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:03 AM   #8
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Running Talent in Legacy Edition

Hmm, I thought running talent and the Elf MA bonus always applied only to people in leather and lighter armor. Why do I feel like I knew that before the Legacy Edition dropped?
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:07 AM   #9
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Running Talent in Legacy Edition

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
Hmm, I thought running talent and the Elf MA bonus always applied only to people in leather and lighter armor. Why do I feel like I knew that before the Legacy Edition dropped?
Because that was in the original edition.
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Old 04-14-2019, 09:09 AM   #10
warhorse11h
 
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Default Re: Running Talent in Legacy Edition

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
Hmm, I thought running talent and the Elf MA bonus always applied only to people in leather and lighter armor. Why do I feel like I knew that before the Legacy Edition dropped?
Original ITL, pg 12,
"RUNNING (2): This is the "talent" representing long hours of jogging, sprinting, and other track training. A figure with this ability adds 2 to his/her MA at all times."

Original ITL, pg 50,
"Elves without armor have a MA of 12; in cloth or leather they have a MA of 10. Other armor affects them as it does men."

Last edited by warhorse11h; 04-14-2019 at 09:17 AM.
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