[Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by smurf

I noticed that a lot of armour does not have a DR stat, what are you doing to represent this. To be fair the Iron man suit takes a certain amount of pounding before it gets messed upl

I'm pretty sure Beetle, Green Goblin, and (when I get to him) Stilt-Man have DR stats for their armor; Black Knight's armor is going to take some thought. Iron Man's armors have yet to truly be statted out, but will have DR as well. His Mk I that he built in a cave ("with a box of scraps!") will probably have enough DR to withstand .50BMG rounds, and his later armors will probably be up in DR 100+ range; not sure I'm going to stat up a Hulkbuster armor just yet.

Most other characters (who aren't normally mentioned as wearing armor) wear the Reflex bodysuits listed in Ultra-Tech, or suits derived from it, with fabric provided to outfitters such as Gladiator's shop by AIM (who are amoral enough to outfit both heroes and villains, not to mention police, government agencies, and subversive orgs with the stuff for profit), giving them some good protection from police gunfire.

[smurf]

Wow I managed to get a Iron manesque suit that had 80DR and that came in at 800pts.

DR1 = 5pts

Hardened etc etc.

This may be close to 1000pts which is was I thought the suit would cost in DR alone.

[Phantasm]

I've run into a slight snag in that I don't know how to classify four characters.

Mimic - is he a Hero, Anti-Hero, or Non-Villain Antagonist?

Thundra - same question.

Tana Nile - a Non-Villain Antagonist to the Fantastic Four, but later an ally to Captain Marvel, but not sure if she counts as a Hero, Anti-Hero, or Supporting Cast.

Sif - Normally I'd list her as a "Hero", but with her being manipulated by Loki into working against Thor's mortal half, she's edging into the Non-Villain Antagonist category; regardless, though, she'll work alongside Thor against his foes.

So, thoughts on how to truly classify this quartet?


(Electra would have made it a quintet, as it's never clear if she's Anti-Hero, Villain, or Non-Villain Antagonist in most of her appearances, but I decided that she's primarily a Villain at this point.)

[Otaku]

I forget if "Anti-Villain" is an option? If it isn't, is there a reason why? The world of fiction made so much more sense once someone explained that category to me. XD

Anti-villain: Either does bad stuff for "good" reasons or does good stuff for the wrong reasons.

Oh and another category, though it might seem like a cheat is "variable". Actually pretty realistic, you've got guys like Mimic that seem to bounce around. Sticking just to your entry for him, he starts out as the villain (unless the argument is that he is insane during the period immediately after gaining his powers). Later he has moments of being a hero or anti-hero, then he is a non-villain antagonist when he's in the thrall of someone else.

I think. >.>

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by Otaku

I forget if "Anti-Villain" is an option? If it isn't, is there a reason why? The world of fiction made so much more sense once someone explained that category to me. XD

Anti-villain: Either does bad stuff for "good" reasons or does good stuff for the wrong reasons.

I think I rolled most of the Anti-Villains into "Non-Villain Antagonist". These are guys the protagonists will probably end up fighting but aren't "Villains" in the classic sense. A prime example posted in this thread would be Kl'rt the Super-Skrull; he's a man of honor who serves the Skrull Empire, but his duty often puts him at odds with heroes such as the Fantastic Four or Captain Marvel, both of whom he deeply respects.

If a particular character fits the "Anti-Villain" category, I'd probably use it. Just haven't found one yet, though Elektra might qualify in a lot of her mainstream appearances.

Originally Posted by Otaku

Oh and another category, though it might seem like a cheat is "variable". Actually pretty realistic, you've got guys like Mimic that seem to bounce around. Sticking just to your entry for him, he starts out as the villain (unless the argument is that he is insane during the period immediately after gaining his powers). Later he has moments of being a hero or anti-hero, then he is a non-villain antagonist when he's in the thrall of someone else.

I think. >.>

Using "Variable" instead of "Uncertain" might actually work for these guys that bounce around a lot. Thanks for the idea.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by trbrock

I've run into a slight snag in that I don't know how to classify four characters.

Mimic - is he a Hero, Anti-Hero, or Non-Villain Antagonist?

Thundra - same question.

Tana Nile - a Non-Villain Antagonist to the Fantastic Four, but later an ally to Captain Marvel, but not sure if she counts as a Hero, Anti-Hero, or Supporting Cast.

Sif - Normally I'd list her as a "Hero", but with her being manipulated by Loki into working against Thor's mortal half, she's edging into the Non-Villain Antagonist category; regardless, though, she'll work alongside Thor against his foes.

So, thoughts on how to truly classify this quartet?

Mimic was something of a pain-in-the-posterior, largely due to his sense of superiority. In that respect, he was rather like the Kon-El version of Superboy from Young Justice without the later lessons in humility. He apparently did die in a heroic sacrifice, so I'd call him a Hero.

Thundra is a bit more of a twist, I've only seen her appearances as a member of the Fantastic Four, where she is clearly a hero. OTOH, I believe she was introduced as a villain.

I haven't read Tana Nile (at least not to remember), so I can't help you there.

I'd class Sif as pretty much a Hero(ine) for most of her appearances.

Organizing characters as Heroes, Villains, Anti-Heroes and Non-Antagonists is a better fit for DC Comics characters where characters rarely switch sides. I suspect that you're either going to need to drop these classifications from Marvel or resign yourself to multiple entries for various characters. For example:

Black Widow starts off as an Iron Man villain, does a probationary stint with the Avengers and becomes a hero in her own right.

Hawkeye starts off as a villain recruited by the Black Widow for use against Iron Man and then switches sides to become a full-fledged Avenger before Black Widow's probationary period.

Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch start off as villains in Magneto's Brotherhood of Evil Mutants and switch to being heroic Avengers at the same time as Hawkeye. At last count in my reading, Quicksilver had resumed being a villain after some twenty-plus years of Avenger stories.

Madame Medusa began as a member of the Frightful Four in the Fantastic Four but later becomes a hero.

Molecule Man was a long term Fantastic Four villain but he reformed sometime around the Secret Wars-era and the reformation seems to have stuck.

Swordsman and Wonder Man started off as villains but reformed to become heroes.

The Silver Surfer has always been a bit nebulous. He rarely gets involved in stories with clear-cut villains and even his origin is a bit murky. There's clearly something heroic about a "take me and spare my planet" sacrifice but there's the whole "spare my planet and I'll find you others to eat" part as well.

While I missed it's occurrence, Sandman switched from being a long-term Human Torch villain to being one of Silver Sable's crew.

Hercules was introduced as a not-entirely-villainous antagonist for Thor initially but became a hero.

The Vision was initially created to be a villain by Ultron but rebelled on his first outing.

Then there's Magneto, who has done so many heel-turns they might as well hook him up and watch him spin.

I'm sure I've only scratched the surface.

[Phantasm]

To be fair, Curmudgeon, I've altered the histories of nearly everyone you mentioned* (and in Scarlet Witch's case, her powers to something more defined). I even linked the entries in the thread.

(And yes, in the comics, Quicksilver seems to be taking after his father in the heel-face revolving door department; last I checked, in Avengers Academy, he was a hero. Of the entire Brotherhood of Mutants in the Reboot, he's the one I'd peg as Anti-Villain rather than Villain; I currently have him in my "Non-Villain Antagonist" list, with a note saying he'll soon betray the team, though not clear whether he'll join the X-Men or Avengers.)

In the comics, Tana Nile is a Rigellian - a psionic alien - who first encountered Thor in the '70s, during his own "Space Opera" phase. She was then seen sporadically in the other "cosmic" titles over the years (Quasar, Infinity Watch, Starblast, etc.) in various roles where she'd end up either aiding or hindering the protagonist. I altered her history a lot; instead of Thor, she first encounters the FF when attempting to lay claim to Earth for her people, rejects her race's solipsistic philosophy, and teams up with Captain Mar-Vell after he escapes from his own court-martial.

Thundra I had to alter; best to just read her linked entry, as I'm not sure I can paraphrase it.

Reboot!Mimic isn't dead yet (and anyway, he got better in the late-'80s/early-'90s.)



* The one I don't have plans for at present is the Vision. Surfer's currently acting as Galactus's herald, but not officially appearing in the Reboot in Year One, being a "start of Year Two" character.

[Phantasm]

And exactly one month after starting my not-a-wiki for the Marvel Reboot project, I have finished uploading every entry I posted here in this thread! (Started 9/9, finished 10/9. Yay me!) The current main entry is the X-Van, though I may soon be replacing it with Red Guardian, after posting him here later. . . .

Right now, I'm slogging through my appendices. Just started my "Rank and Status Tables". I must say, tables take a long time to HTMLize!

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by tbrock1031

I think I rolled most of the Anti-Villains into "Non-Villain Antagonist". These are guys the protagonists will probably end up fighting but aren't "Villains" in the classic sense. A prime example posted in this thread would be Kl'rt the Super-Skrull; he's a man of honor who serves the Skrull Empire, but his duty often puts him at odds with heroes such as the Fantastic Four or Captain Marvel, both of whom he deeply respects.

If a particular character fits the "Anti-Villain" category, I'd probably use it. Just haven't found one yet, though Elektra might qualify in a lot of her mainstream appearances.



Using "Variable" instead of "Uncertain" might actually work for these guys that bounce around a lot. Thanks for the idea.

Not being much of a comic guy, I always understood Mr. Freeze. Anything, and everything, he did was to save his wife. From desperation and love came villainy.

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Not being much of a comic guy, I always understood Mr. Freeze. Anything, and everything, he did was to save his wife. From desperation and love came villainy.

Not quite, unless my memory is failing me: there would be periodic moments where Mr. Freeze would give into his anger over a situation and choose a less-than-rational approach. I am not kidding about my memory failing me; I can't cite a specific episode or anything like that; it might have been in the Batman: Sub-Zero movie, it might even be from merely a similar adaptation (but not the actual Animated wing franchise).