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Old 02-02-2014, 05:53 PM   #21
roguebfl
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Default Re: How to Build a Boy Scout

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Originally Posted by abe ray View Post
there ARE books that tell you how to earn your badges legitamitly that are sold by the boy scouts of america right?
The Actually have a wiki for that meritbadge.org it cover all levels of scouting.
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Old 02-02-2014, 09:04 PM   #22
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Default Re: How to Build a Boy Scout

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Originally Posted by Gedrin View Post
It's excellent justification for dabbler, true, but I don't think you could be an Eagle without a point in Naturalist or Survival and First Aid. Swimming is almost certain, and some form of civics showing on the sheet is very appropriate.
Yeah, I imagine there are enough ways to game the system to come out with a bunch of badges but no real skills, but the time commitment the people who were serious about it put in ought to be good for at least 6 or 8 points. I'd probably call it a point in each of Diplomacy (Eagle scouts do do conflict resolution stuff right, and not just the Girl Scout side?), First Aid, Housekeeping, Survival, one area of interest of your choice, and something for the traditions, maybe Savoir Faire (Scouting).
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Old 02-02-2014, 09:39 PM   #23
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Default Re: How to Build a Boy Scout

Well, IDHMBWM, but is the "skill degradation" rule still in effect for 4e?

Most of the former Boy Scouts I know let their skills degrade into dabbler perks, and bought off their codes of honor, etc.
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:05 PM   #24
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Default Re: How to Build a Boy Scout

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Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
You have to remember the difference between "might have" and "should have", because some of those skills did not exist in the majority of Scouts I knew.
It's based on the current set of required merit badges for eagle scouts. Scouts from different eras would allot their dabbler points differently. It seems to be the consensus, though, that first aid, knot-tying, and hiking are particular strong suits. I'd say swimming as well for most scouts.

All that said, the potential for variety from scout to scout is larger now than it ever has been. They even have a chess merit badge.
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:28 PM   #25
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Default Re: How to Build a Boy Scout

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Why is a full point in a skill so elusive and difficult to attain?

Isn't scouting something people do at least once a week and oftentimes more than that for many years?
Yes, but that doesn't mean that you necessarily reach any great depth. For example, it has been repeatedly mentioned that just driving back and forth to work for years is not enough to make you a particularly skilled driver. Likewise, the Scouting curriculum, even adhered to diligently over years, doe not even come close to the skill set of a first responder or EMT. A lot of it is simplistic and specifically limited to the "appropriate" set of skills for a teenager.

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
So the average Eagle Scout has skill 8 in First Aid and skill 6 in most other scouting skills? Including Hiking? And no higher Navigation than someone who once saw a TV show where a compass was used?
First of all, Dabbler is NOT someone who "saw a TV show", it is a hobbyist. Second, I am mentioning the minimums that I would expect, because a lot of Scouts (even Eagle Scouts) will be at the minimums in any given area, and because there is no actual aggregate level of competence required.
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:43 PM   #26
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Default Re: How to Build a Boy Scout

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Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
Yes, but that doesn't mean that you necessarily reach any great depth. For example, it has been repeatedly mentioned that just driving back and forth to work for years is not enough to make you a particularly skilled driver. Likewise, the Scouting curriculum, even adhered to diligently over years, doe not even come close to the skill set of a first responder or EMT. A lot of it is simplistic and specifically limited to the "appropriate" set of skills for a teenager.
First aid is one of the few an experienced scout may actually achieve some skill in. Nowhere near the level of a professional EMT, but 1 skill point takes about 200 hours of instruction. Between the first aid merit badge, the various scouting rank requirements starting with learning to apply a band-aid when you're a cub scout, the first aid components of other merit badges (emergency preparedness, safety, lifesaving, hiking, etc.), and the other exposure you receive to first aid training in scout meetings here and there, as well as at school (we could get CPR certification at my high school, for instance), an eagle scout could get in the 200 hours so as to have one point.
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:45 PM   #27
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Default Re: How to Build a Boy Scout

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Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
I'd probably call it a point in each of Diplomacy (Eagle scouts do do conflict resolution stuff right, and not just the Girl Scout side?), First Aid, Housekeeping, Survival, one area of interest of your choice, and something for the traditions, maybe Savoir Faire (Scouting).
I don't recall anything in Scouts that would count as any better training in Diplomacy than would having an obnoxious sibling. Housekeeping covers a whole bunch of things that Scouts barely do and a few other things that they do only in very specific circumstances - policing a campsite, for example, does NOT mean that they now how to clean a house. I can see Survival at a Dabbler level only because they will get some camping training and experience, but the ability to "live off the land" is well beyond most Scouts and certainly beyond their training - and I GOT the Wilderness Survival badge! Savoir-Faire seems useless and like a stretch, but if it makes you happy, go for it. First Aid seems the only one really feasible to merit a full point, and I discount that to Dabbler that simply because the BSA program focuses much more on repetition and the peculiarities of wilderness first aid, rather than breadth OR depth.

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Originally Posted by Critical View Post
It's based on the current set of required merit badges for eagle scouts. Scouts from different eras would allot their dabbler points differently. It seems to be the consensus, though, that first aid, knot-tying, and hiking are particular strong suits. I'd say swimming as well for most scouts.
I disagree with Swimming and Hiking both from personal experience.

For Swimming, I barely passed the requirements (which only required a 200m swim) at the time, and that was the literal peak of my swimming skill - if I could pass it at what must surely have been a Dabbler level at best, I see no reason to make a full point a requirement. And consider that for a substantial number of Scouts, the only time they will really do any swimming is in a pool at camp for a week out of the summer - my Troop didn't do any activities that required me to do more than possess a Swimming badge (which, as I already mentioned, is pretty easy to get).

For Hiking, it is worthwhile to note again that different Troops have different levels of activity. Some go hiking once or twice a year, hardly the sort of thing that leads to a full point. I was lucky to be in a more active Troop, but I later served on the staff at Philmont and was astonished at the lack of both skill and conditioning apparent in a number of self-announced Eagle Scouts (admittedly from more urban areas). The minimum required for an Eagle Scout is a single 5-mile hike, under no pressure and with all the attempts you need (hopefully, 1).

At the moment, Eagle requires Swimming OR Hiking OR Cycling, so perhaps for Dabbler it should just be "pick one".
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:59 PM   #28
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Default Re: How to Build a Boy Scout

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Originally Posted by Critical View Post
First aid is one of the few an experienced scout may actually achieve some skill in. Nowhere near the level of a professional EMT, but 1 skill point takes about 200 hours of instruction. Between the first aid merit badge, the various scouting rank requirements starting with learning to apply a band-aid when you're a cub scout, the first aid components of other merit badges (emergency preparedness, safety, lifesaving, hiking, etc.), and the other exposure you receive to first aid training in scout meetings here and there, as well as at school (we could get CPR certification at my high school, for instance), an eagle scout could get in the 200 hours so as to have one point.
Could, absolutely - could implies extra effort, and like I said earlier you can use a Scouting background to introduce nearly ANY skill to a character. But we would take new Scouts from "how do I open this Band-Aid?" to "Here's your First Aid Merit Badge" in a week at camp (while they were working on a handful of other badges AND doing all kinds of other stuff), and I would say that makes up about 90% of the minimum you need to get Eagle. Emergency Prep was far more about disaster management and survival than anything else - I think the first aid requirement was to first have earned the First Aid badge! Safety was basically Emergency Prep toned down and focused on a domestic/suburban setting. If you wanted anything close to 200 hours of genuine training in First Aid, I am not even sure where you could get it strictly within the bounds of Scouting - rather, you would need to use Scouting Contacts to get into a more advanced program.

BTW, First Responder is typically a 40 hour course and I recall it covering about everything the Scouts had and a few things more. 200 hours of training is about what it takes to be an EMT. I would normally say that Default +2 would be a Boy Scout or hobbyist, Default +3 would be a First Responder, 1cp is EMT-Basic, 2cp is EMT-Intermediate, and 4cp is EMT-Paramedic (all as minimums).
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Old 02-03-2014, 01:54 AM   #29
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Default Re: How to Build a Boy Scout

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Originally Posted by Tomalak View Post
I am getting involved in a new game a friend is running. I would like to give my character a background in Scouting, but having not been a scout myself (outside of one year as a wolf cub) I am not certain what skills would be reasonable to represent this.

Do you have greater experience with scouting & GURPS? Any advice on how to accurately portray a background in scouting would be most appreciated.
The Dabbler Perk, from the Perks-based "GURPS Power-Ups" volume, may be highly useful.
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Old 02-03-2014, 02:02 AM   #30
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Default Re: How to Build a Boy Scout

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Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
Yes, but that doesn't mean that you necessarily reach any great depth. For example, it has been repeatedly mentioned that just driving back and forth to work for years is not enough to make you a particularly skilled driver. Likewise, the Scouting curriculum, even adhered to diligently over years, doe not even come close to the skill set of a first responder or EMT. A lot of it is simplistic and specifically limited to the "appropriate" set of skills for a teenager.
First responders or EMTs have a minimum skill level of 12 in their areas of expertise and an argument could be made that since what they do carries serious risks in case of failure, the minimum for qualified personnel is 14.

That's miles away from the skill level of 8-10 that you'd get if you spend 1 point in some of the scouting skills for a regular scout.

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Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
First of all, Dabbler is NOT someone who "saw a TV show", it is a hobbyist.
That's irrelevant, because your Dabbler write-up didn't include Navigation, so your hypothetical Eagle Scout has the same default as anyone else who knows what a compass is.

Aside from that, Dabbler may represent hobbyists, particularly for a high-Attribute character, but in general, skill level 8-11 represents hobbyists. Skill level 6-7 is more likely to represent former hobbies, which have deteriorated to only just above default.

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Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
Second, I am mentioning the minimums that I would expect, because a lot of Scouts (even Eagle Scouts) will be at the minimums in any given area, and because there is no actual aggregate level of competence required.
For nearly anything without extremely strenous testing with real consequences if you fail, the minimum competence is zero. What I think the OP is more interested in is the likely competence for someone who actually defines himself and is defined as a character by his scouting experience.
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