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11-04-2013, 05:24 AM | #1 |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Grappled & Ranged Attacks: Martial Arts vs. Tactical Shooting vs. Technical Grappling
Greetings, all!
I'm seeing a threefold conflict on how ranged attacks are treated if the attacker is grappled. Basic Set is, of course, the simplest - it forbids ranged attacks entirely. Of course, Basic Set is assumed to be overriden by specialised rulebooks. Martial Arts seems content with the rule as-is (I haven't found a change in MA). Technical Grappling penalizes ranged attacks by the grappler's Trained ST (modified for relative ST of the victim), which basically means that only Ogre Slingers and fellas with over-the-top shooty skills can do a ranged attack while grappled. But then it turns out that Tactical Shooting allows ranged attacks out of a grapple - even if the weapon is grappled by winning a Quick Contest of DX or Retain Weapon against the grappler's DX, apparently without any extra penalty. Finally, maybe I missed something, but it seems that in TG, Retain Weapon can be used to regain weapon Grip ST, but the usage to resist the penalties to shoot while grappled is unaccounted for. How do these get reconciled? Thanks in advance! |
11-04-2013, 06:49 AM | #2 | |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Grappled & Ranged Attacks: Martial Arts vs. Tactical Shooting vs. Technical Grapp
First: read the rule, and please quote it when you post these little tidbits, since you seem to have left out the key bit:
Quote:
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11-04-2013, 06:58 AM | #3 |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: Grappled & Ranged Attacks: Martial Arts vs. Tactical Shooting vs. Technical Grapp
Is the grapple back strategy even viable? Doing it with the arms will mean you can't do a ranged attack since now your arms are occupied; doing it with legs would give you a very uncomfortable posture, or even an outright fall; doing it with teeth is at ½ST and is difficult in terms of allowed targets (and thus penalties to grapple).
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11-04-2013, 07:01 AM | #4 | ||
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Grappled & Ranged Attacks: Martial Arts vs. Tactical Shooting vs. Technical Grapp
Quote:
Quote:
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11-04-2013, 07:05 AM | #5 |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Grappled & Ranged Attacks: Martial Arts vs. Tactical Shooting vs. Technical Grapp
Also, remember that most GURPS assumes grapple = no use of ranged weapons AT ALL. So TG is generous by that stance. If you feel that the book didn't go far enough, fine - simply penalize all ranged attacks by a number equal to the total CP inflicted by all grapples on the foe.
We'd introduced enough detail (or complexity, if you will) that "just use your foe's Trained ST" was better than nothing. By and large, we assumed that some of that penalty would be offset by trying to shoot in close combat, whcih means an AoA(Determined)/Telegraphic attack would offset +5 to hit for a pseudo-melee "ranged" attack with a gun. Shooting a foe in a controlled manner at 25yds while also grappled? I'm comfortable with "no frackin' way" in this case.
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11-04-2013, 07:19 AM | #6 | ||
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: Grappled & Ranged Attacks: Martial Arts vs. Tactical Shooting vs. Technical Grapp
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11-04-2013, 07:27 AM | #7 |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Grappled & Ranged Attacks: Martial Arts vs. Tactical Shooting vs. Technical Grapp
As FAQ-keeper, you of all should know there are many options in the various books that not only cannot be reconciled, but they're not supposed to be. The GM picks the rule appropriate to his game-world and the expectations of his players, and runs with it. If "can't shoot while grappled" is the right feel, than that's the operative rule. If "can shoot, but only at the guy grappling you" is right, that's operative. If he wants to say "you may shoot, but at the usual DX penalty for being grappled" then that's what it is.
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11-04-2013, 07:55 AM | #8 | |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: Grappled & Ranged Attacks: Martial Arts vs. Tactical Shooting vs. Technical Grapp
Quote:
Books also used to follow the 'when in conflict, use the latest', but this gets tricky when contradiction is only partial. I'm fully expecting that once the questions will subside, there'll be grounds for adding a separate section to the oFAQ. |
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11-04-2013, 08:34 AM | #9 | |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: Grappled & Ranged Attacks: Martial Arts vs. Tactical Shooting vs. Technical Grapp
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11-04-2013, 09:34 AM | #10 | |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Grappled & Ranged Attacks: Martial Arts vs. Tactical Shooting vs. Technical Grapp
Quote:
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Tags |
grappling, martial arts, ranged attacks, tactical shooting, technical grappling |
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