IT: Diffuse and Grappling

[Dalren]

I'm a little bit confused about Injury Tolerance: Diffuse and Grappling and would appreciate it if anyone could clarify how they interact. As I understand it:

• Most foes cannot slam or grapple a Diffuse character.
• However, a Diffuse character can grapple foes.
• A character with Diffuse (Swam +80%) can grapple while occuping a single hex, but not while spread out.
• A character with Diffuse (Swarm +160%) can grapple while spread out by focusing on a specific hex within the swarm's area.

Is this correct as I understand it?

[The Benj]

Looks right to me.

[the_matrix_walker]

I believe the last bullet point is in error.

You can shift your viewpoint, but are effectively insubstantial. You could only grapple if your ST Based Damage was enhanced with Effects Substantial or with similarly enhanced Telekinesis.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by Dalren

...[*]A character with Diffuse (Swam +80%) can grapple while occuping a single hex, but not while spread out.

This is because the character is treated as insubstantial.

[*]A character with Diffuse (Swarm +160%) can grapple while spread out by focusing on a specific hex within the swarm's area.

I would say they could grapple in any hex, but would be fighting blind in all hexes except the one they focus on.

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

... You could only grapple if your ST Based Damage was enhanced with Effects Substantial or with similarly enhanced Telekinesis.

No, that's what you pay 160% for instead of 80%.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

I would say they could grapple in any hex, but would be fighting blind in all hexes except the one they focus on.

A swarm is not blind to all hexes but it's focal point. It has the effect of a point of perspective from the selected hex, you can see areas as big and wide as a normal human.

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

No, that's what you pay 160% for instead of 80%.

Just like Insubstantiality is +100% if you have abilities that Affect the substantial world. That does not preclude needing the affects substantial enhancement. I've had this discussion before actually....

[Dusqune]

Kromm's take:

http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...2&postcount=10

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

A swarm is not blind to all hexes but it's focal point. It has the effect of a point of perspective from the selected hex, you can see areas as big and wide as a normal human.

Powers p 53: "You can focus your senses on any point within your area"

Just like Insubstantiality is +100% if you have abilities that Affect the substantial world. That does not preclude needing the affects substantial enhancement.

Cost as listed on Powers p.53: "+80% if you can’t affect the material world;
+160% if you can."

No mention of needing anything else.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

Powers p 53: "You can focus your senses on any point within your area"

Which I interpret as setting your sensory perspective. Sensing only one point without it's surrounding context makes very little sense.

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

Cost as listed on Powers p.53: "+80% if you can’t affect the material world;
+160% if you can."

No mention of needing anything else.

It's the same layout as Affects Substantial with Insubstantiality... It costs twice as much as when you can't affect the substantial world. In the Swarm description, it reads "Otherwise, treat this state as Insubstantiality" so if it IS Insubstantiality, you need Affects Substantial.

----

Reading the linked post above seems to disagree with my interpretation.... which just seems very strange...

[the_matrix_walker]

PMed Kromm for clarification....

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

In several discussions, the point of Injury Tolerance: Diffuse (Swarm, +160%) and the ramifications of "otherwise treat as insubstantial" have been discussed.

Others have disagreed, but I am of the opinion that the intent is that a dispersed swarm character would need affects insubstantial on any ability they wanted to use on the substantial world.

I was wondering if you would be so kind to settle this point of order.

Originally Posted by Kromm

Since the difference between the +80% and +160% is specifically meant to generate an 80-point cost that mirrors the effect of Affect Substantial, +100% on Insubstantiality, I would have to agree with you. Obviously, no extra enhancement is needed on senses or movement abilities, as they clearly work regardless . . . but attacks and such would be rather overpowered if not balanced in some way.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

PMed Kromm for clarification....

Except ...

It shouldn't be mirroring Affects Substantial (which is about having OTHER abilities that work from the Insubstantial side), but rather Partial Change (which allows physical interaction).