Statting the Voice of Saruman Without Enthrallment.

[Cato the Elder]

How would one use Advantages to stat something akin to Saruman's commanding voice? I would prefer a way that leads to a more instantaneous and varied effect than the various subtypes of the Enthrallment skill.

Thanks in advance for your responses.

[Humabout]

I'd start with Mind Control with Hearing-Based. I'd have to open my copy and read up on exactly what he could do to get more detailed than that.

[Johnny Angel]

I believe there's a shock/awe variant to the Terror advantage. I'm away from books and cannot recall where though. That might be something to look at; make it be speech/hearing based.

[Polydamas]

Voice and very high levels of such skills as Acting, Diplomacy, and Fast-Talk would probably help. I am not sure if his powers are really beyond the reach of a great orator in our world, although we only see him in his decline. There is a story that Cicero got Caesar to change his mind about a case ...

He also begins with a marvelous Reputation.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

Voice and very high levels of such skills as Acting, Diplomacy, and Fast-Talk would probably help. I am not sure if his powers are really beyond the reach of a great orator in our world, although we only see him in his decline. There is a story that Cicero got Caesar to change his mind about a case ...

He also begins with a marvelous Reputation.

I'd tack on a Hearing-Based invokable Charisma advantage.

[whswhs]

One way to mechanic it would be as a variant Rapier Wit, with the effect being not stunning, but an ongoing Will drain. Or, perhaps, a hearing-based Affliction with the same effect. That way, as Saruman spoke, his hearers would lose the ability to withstand his persuasions. Presumably it would be resisted by Will, to explain why Gandalf is able to laugh it off.

Bill Stoddard

[Stone Dog]

Gandalf is probably more able to laugh it off because he isn't human and he is now the leader of the Order. Saruman's Voice is probably much more effective against the younger races than it is against fellow Istari.

Basing resistance off Will is still a good idea though. Theoden wasn't putting up with that mojo after all. "We will have peace, when you and all your works have perished-and the works of your dark master whom you would deliver us. You are a liar Saruman, and corrupter of men's hearts. You hold out your hand to me, and I perceive only a finger of the claw of Mordor""

[Dorin Thorha]

Gandalf is probably more able to laugh it off because he isn't human and he is now the leader of the Order.

One of the main game mechanical effects of that, though, is that Gandalf has crazy high Will and most likely some Resistances.

I think he definitely has Voice and ludicrous influence skills (and keeps both even after being depowered), but his "Voice of Saruman" power is a perfect fit for the Awe variant of Terror. In the book his power is explained as having varied effect of different victims, ranging from "only affected when spoken to directly" to "enthralled by the mere sound" to "permanently affected even when no longer in Saruman's presence". That sounds to me like he has both the active form of Awe where he contests his formidable Will with a single target and the passive form where anyone in earshot rolls their Will against a flat modifier. Strong-willed victims suffer only temporary effects, and may even shrug off the weaker passive form completely, but a sufficiently bad resistance roll leaves the victim with permanent mental disadvantages reflecting loyalty to Saruman.

[quarkstomper]

Gandalf also had been fooled by Saruman before, and that experience made him able to recognize when Saruman was trying it again.

[Johnny1A.2]

For what it's worth, JRRT specifically said in a letter that Saruman's Voice is not a form of mind control or hypnosis, it doesn't interfere with your mind or your reason, it's a form of persuasion. The hearer is always free to use reason and will to disregard it. So it could be resisted by IQ, potentially, rather than Will (assuming those are not the same).

One way to model it might be to treat it as a skill (like diplomacy or fast talk or whatever seems to fit the situation) rather than an advantage as such, with a ridiculously high bonus on the skill roll.