Claws and Armor Divisor

[Erling]

So, as Basic Set doesn't allow Armor Divisor enhancement for Claws, I should use Powers p. 146 if I want to get armor-piercing Claws and stick with the RAW.

Is following build legit?

Step 1:
ST 12, Thrust 1d-1.

Step 2:
1d-1 equals to 0.7 dice. 0.7 x 5 = 3.5, round up to [4]. This doesn't cost points, it's just necessary for further calculations.

Step 3: Armor Divisor (2) costs +50%. I also assume it's a subject to Accessibility limitation (Only When Using Claws): -50%. Total modifier is +0%.

Step 4: [4] x 0% = 0. This enhancement doesn't cost points itself.

Step 4.1: Claws (Talons) cost [8] and it's subject to exactly same modifiers which were applied to damage (except for, I guess, Accessibility). So it'll cost [8]+50%, [12].

Total point cost for claws with Armor Divisor (2) is [12] points. Right?

[vicky_molokh]

Step 3 should be multiplicative, not additive, so ({100%}+50%)×({100%}-50%) = {100%}+25%. I'm not even sure 'only when using claws' is fairly priced at -50% at all.

[Erling]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Step 3 should be multiplicative, not additive, so ({100%}+50%)×({100%}-50%) = {100%}+25%.

Are you sure about that? Powers p.146 states that at Step 3 I should total modifiers, not costs. And at Step 4 I should multiply total modifier by "effective point cost" from Step 2.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

I'm not even sure 'only when using claws' is fairly priced at -50% at all.

I've looked through other Claws-related threads and encountered even -60% suggestions. Whatever, it's cost can vary - the main interest is the concept.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Erling

Are you sure about that? Powers p.146 states that at Step 3 I should total modifiers, not costs. And at Step 4 I should multiply total modifier by "effective point cost" from Step 2.

That's odd, because you seem to be applying the limitation to the enhancement. Just adding them* up allows getting some (other) enhancements effectively for free.

* limitations that apply only to a particular enhancement, as opposed to a limitation that applies to the whole damage.

[Erling]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

That's odd, because you seem to be applying the limitation to the enhancement.

Actually, I don't. I apply both enhancement and limitation straightly to the melee damage as if it was an advantage, as per B101 (+50% - 50% = 0%) and Powers 146.

[Erling]

Here I have another variant based on "exactly the same modifiers" phrase from Powers.

Step 1:
ST 12, Thrust 1d-1.

Step 2:
1d-1 equals to 0.7 dice. 0.7 x 5 = 3.5, round up to [4]. This doesn't cost points, it's just necessary for further calculations.

Step 3: Armor Divisor (2) costs +50%, also add Accessibility limitation (Only When Using Claws): -20%. Total modifier is +30%.

Step 4: [4] x 30% = [2].

Step 4.1: Claws (Talons) cost [8] and it's subject to exactly same modifiers which were applied to damage (including Accessibility). So it'll cost [8]+30%, [11].

Total point cost for Claws with Armor Divisor (2) is [2]+[11] = [13] points

Disclaimer: I'm not trying to be a rules lawyer, I'm just trying to understand how to build cyberblades in GURPS terms.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Just adding them* up allows getting some (other) enhancements effectively for free.

* limitations that apply only to a particular enhancement, as opposed to a limitation that applies to the whole damage.

That's weird, I agree. If limitation (Only When Using Claws, -50%) was applied to enhancement (Armor Divisor, +50%), total enhancement cost would be +25%. But I don't know if limitations can be applied to enhancements, and it also seems (or it doesn't?) that Powers assume applying limitations to damage, not to enhancements.

[Bruno]

The build is not legit, because any limitation applied to ST based damage in the way that you did applies to ST based damage ALL THE TIME, not just when using one specific or applicable attack.

You end up with 2 points for the ST based damage w/out the limitation. This is the advantage for "Armor divisor on my ST based damage". NOW apply the limitation.

[Erling]

Originally Posted by Bruno

NOW apply the limitation.

Apply to what?

[Erling]

Originally Posted by Bruno

This is the advantage for "Armor divisor on my ST based damage". NOW apply the limitation.

Ahh, I see. Apply it to this advantage.

Then what shall the build be?

Step 1:
ST 12, Thrust 1d-1.

Step 2:
1d-1 equals to 0.7 dice. 0.7 x 5 = 3.5, round up to [4]. This doesn't cost points, it's just necessary for further calculations.

Step 3: Armor Divisor (2) costs +50%

Step 4: [4] x 50% = [2].

Step 4.1: Claws (Talons) cost [8] and it's subject to exactly same modifiers which were applied to damage. So it'll cost [8]+50%, [12].

Step 4.2. Armor Divisor (2) is now advantage, not enhancement. So I apply Accessibility limitation (Only When Using Claws, -50%). Total cost for advantage will be [1]

Total cost for Claws with Armor Divisor (2): [13]

Right?

[Varyon]

I think you've got the right of it here, although you should probably base things on a cutting attack (base cost [7] rather than [5], so you're working with a virtual cost of [5] rather than [4]), and I'm not certain Only When Using Claws is really that meaningful of a Limitation.

Originally Posted by Erling

I'm just trying to understand how to build cyberblades in GURPS terms.

You've got one way, which hews closest to the core books. A much easier way, however, is to use Natural Weapons from Pyramid #3/65 - assuming you're trying to make something like Molly's razor nails (from Neuromancer) as a Superfine weapon, this is probably Cutting Natural Weapon (Armor Divisor 2 +50%, Hidden +20%, Increased Damage +2 +60%, Cannot Parry -40%) [14]. Personally, I'd probably toss on Extra Damage Type (Pi+) for another +20%, boosting cost to [15]. That gives you retractable (free action) claws on each hand that can do Thr+2(2) cut or Thr+2(2) pi+. If you see them being targeted and attacked frequently, Resilient 2 +20% mimics the effect of Very Fine (Resilient 3 +40% makes the weapon outright unbreakable, but Resilient is mostly a waste of points when your weapon Cannot Parry anyway).