A 10-pack of DFRPG questions

[tbone]

Thanks for the replies to my questions, and my apologies for replying in turn so slowly. To add commentary to a few items:

1) A non-enchanting deal?

Originally Posted by zoncxs

I am guessing it is because Defense Bonus (DB) does not stack, so if you have a shield with Deflect +1 and a suit of armor with Deflect +2, you only have +2 DB since it is the higher one. It also is only useful if you are using a shield, if you have a suit of armor with Deflect +2 but no shield, then you can't utilize that +2 DB. After all, Defense Bonus is what shields provide when used. This enchantment increases that, but you still need to use that shield.

Defending Weapon/Shield on the other hand always works, because you are either using the weapon/shield or not. Also note, this stacks with Deflect!

I can't say I follow that. Seems to me that $2,000 of Deflect for armor gives a +1 DB (i.e., +1 on any AD) as long as you wear that armor . . . no weapon or shield needed, and the protection is good vs attacks from any direction. $2,000 of Deflect for a shield also gives a +1 DB, though presumably only vs attacks that the shield could block. Meanwhile, $10,000 of Defending Weapon/Shield for a weapon or shield gives a +1 only to Parry or only to Block, and only vs attacks that could be parried or blocked.

As far as I can tell, this is a no-brainer: get Deflect for armor or for shield (though not both), then get Defending Weapon/Shield later if you've got big gold to burn. The latter is definitely less bang for the buck.

2) Going bow-less

For now, I'll stick with my suggested stats for a thrown arrow: thr-2 imp, Acc 1, x0.5/x1, ST 3, Bulk -3. I'll also assume that the slower speed of a thrown object precludes the armor-piercing effect of a bodkin arrow. (I assume that bodkin isn't offered as an option for darts, javelins, etc. for the same reason.)

7) Defensive fast-draw

I remain unsure what the official answer might be, but for myself, I'll continue allowing Fast-Draw to instantly ready a weapon for parrying. It seems sensible to me and adds more value to Fast-Draw, which is really quite expensive (esp. in the +4/level range) for a single physical motion.

9) Bad deals, Part II

Originally Posted by zoncxs

You are trading no negative reaction to people within your own group with skill penalties. Being barred from towns is not really worth points. Basically -4 to certain skills and being thrown out of town is almost the same as no reaction penalty from own people + not being thrown out of town.

Again, not sure I follow. The wording differs for the two disads, but both hit you with -2 on reactions except from your own kind. Then Social Stigma (Savage) tacks on an additional -4 to important skill rolls. The "barred from town" factor, too, is definitely a real disad, keeping a PC from buying, selling, seeking healing, etc. (I'd say it'd be worth considerable points on its own, though much less as a part of Savage because of its low frequency of occurrence.)

It remains strange to me that these two disads have the same value.

10) Glamour in Nordlondr Folk

Regarding that roll to pierce Glamour, perhaps we can hear from the author later on how it's intended to work.

About resistance:

Originally Posted by zoncxs

Resistant to Glamour trait is +1 per level, and each level cost 1 point. the wording of the description is for what the Hálfálfar has in its stat block (Resistant to Glamour 5 [5]) which is +5 resistance.

Ah, the "+5" is referring to the specific statted creature. (Oddly worded text.) Got it!

Thanks again. I'll have new questions again later – probably in a new thread, for better visibility.

[Kalzazz]

I admit I usually consider the kicked out of town roll the worst part of Social Stigma - Savage

I'm not playing a Half Ogre with an IQ penalty to be a social butterfly, but I do want to go shopping and not roll wandering monster checks

[tbone]

On that Social Stigma question:

I'm pretty sure it's been asked before - and it has been. Including by me. (Oops.)

Here's the thread:

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=153076

And the summary of Kromm's answer:

Both disads carry a -2 on reactions, but different in scope:

Social Stigma (Minority Group): -2 on reaction rolls for all purposes from everybody but those in your minority group.

Social Stigma (Savage): -2 on reaction rolls and -4 on skill rolls for negotiations from everybody but those of your kind, and 6 or less chance of being barred from town.

I believe the problem is this: I read "-2 on reaction rolls and -4 on skill rolls for negotiations" as

"-2 on reaction rolls and (-4 on skill rolls for negotiations)";

Kromm's reply above suggests that the correct reading is

"(-2 on reaction rolls and -4 on skill rolls) for negotiations"

Using the latter reading, I can understand how the two versions of Social Stigma could fairly carry the same cost. So that settles it for me (a second time; until I forget again).

[zoncxs]

Originally Posted by tbone

Thanks for the replies to my questions, and my apologies for replying in turn so slowly. To add commentary to a few items:

1) A non-enchanting deal?



I can't say I follow that. Seems to me that $2,000 of Deflect for armor gives a +1 DB (i.e., +1 on any AD) as long as you wear that armor . . . no weapon or shield needed, and the protection is good vs attacks from any direction. $2,000 of Deflect for a shield also gives a +1 DB, though presumably only vs attacks that the shield could block. Meanwhile, $10,000 of Defending Weapon/Shield for a weapon or shield gives a +1 only to Parry or only to Block, and only vs attacks that could be parried or blocked.

As far as I can tell, this is a no-brainer: get Deflect for armor or for shield (though not both), then get Defending Weapon/Shield later if you've got big gold to burn. The latter is definitely less bang for the buck.

DF Adventurers page 118

"[2] Defense Bonus adds to that of any mundane shield. If both shield and armor have Deflect, only the highest magical DB applies. See Defense Bonus (Exploits, p. 47)."

Defense Bonus is useless without a shield. The reason for applying the enchantment to your armor and not on the shield is because it would then work with any shield you wield. It is useful on the shield since that means you don't have to wear the full suit of armor to benefit from the enchantment, and since the enchantment is only beneficial if you are using a shield it makes sense. Applying the enchantment to both is ideal if you got the money to spend, it means, as long as you have a shield, that you will always benefit from it.

But overall, it does look like you get it. It was just that one thing you missed.

Originally Posted by tbone

10) Glamour in Nordlondr Folk

Regarding that roll to pierce Glamour, perhaps we can hear from the author later on how it's intended to work.

About resistance:

Ah, the "+5" is referring to the specific statted creature. (Oddly worded text.) Got it!

Thanks again. I'll have new questions again later – probably in a new thread, for better visibility.

Don't start a new thread! keep all the questions here so that they can all be found easily! Also you could update the first post with all the questions and answers!

[Balor Patch]

Originally Posted by zoncxs

DF Adventurers page 118
"[2] Defense Bonus adds to that of any mundane shield. If both shield and armor have Deflect, only the highest magical DB applies. See Defense Bonus (Exploits, p. 47)."

Defense Bonus is useless without a shield. The reason for applying the enchantment to your armor and not on the shield is because it would then work with any shield you wield. It is useful on the shield since that means you don't have to wear the full suit of armor to benefit from the enchantment, and since the enchantment is only beneficial if you are using a shield it makes sense. Applying the enchantment to both is ideal if you got the money to spend, it means, as long as you have a shield, that you will always benefit from it.

By that theory a shield's DB isn't useful unless there is also a magical DB to add to it. As long as one of the DB values you are adding is positive, it's useful.

[tbone]

Originally Posted by zoncxs

Defense Bonus is useless without a shield.

That might be the official ruling, but I'm not seeing it from the text. It suggests that, say, +2 DB cast on armor does nothing, until I pick up a shield, or garbage can lid, or anything shleld-ish, then the armor's DB suddenly kicks in (or is transferred to the shield?). And that doesn't feel like the intent to me.

As further argument, I'll note a similar magical enhancement: the Protect Animal spell, which gives +3 DB to its subjects, with no shields needed.

I wouldn't be surprised if the workings of Deflect on armor have already been well discussed on the forum. . . and, I just found a discussion here. http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=153471

Again, I'm not seeing a clear ruling of "Deflect on Armor requires no shield to work," but post #8 suggests that to me.

Originally Posted by zoncxs

Don't start a new thread! keep all the questions here so that they can all be found easily! Also you could update the first post with all the questions and answers!

Sounds neat & clean to me, too, but I imagine there are people who would peek at a new thread out of curiosity, while passing over an old one as "probably just more comments on old stuff". I think I'll try a new one next time just to see whether it gets more commentary!

[zoncxs]

Originally Posted by tbone

That might be the official ruling, but I'm not seeing it from the text. It suggests that, say, +2 DB cast on armor does nothing, until I pick up a shield, or garbage can lid, or anything shleld-ish, then the armor's DB suddenly kicks in (or is transferred to the shield?). And that doesn't feel like the intent to me.

As further argument, I'll note a similar magical enhancement: the Protect Animal spell, which gives +3 DB to its subjects, with no shields needed.

I wouldn't be surprised if the workings of Deflect on armor have already been well discussed on the forum. . . and, I just found a discussion here. http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=153471

Again, I'm not seeing a clear ruling of "Deflect on Armor requires no shield to work," but post #8 suggests that to me.

You know what, you are right, I was overthinking it. I got caught up with terminology and where it is applied. Defense bonus is only found on shields, no where else (excluding spells).

Originally Posted by tbone

Sounds neat & clean to me, too, but I imagine there are people who would peek at a new thread out of curiosity, while passing over an old one as "probably just more comments on old stuff". I think I'll try a new one next time just to see whether it gets more commentary!

Problem with that is Moderators might hit you and fuse the threads together. Plus people who see a thread STILL active will more than likely check it out, and if you are updating the first post with added questions with answer then it would be more helpful for everyone. Not to mention the easy of searching.

[Kallatari]

Originally Posted by zoncxs

DF Adventurers page 118

"[2] Defense Bonus adds to that of any mundane shield. If both shield and armor have Deflect, only the highest magical DB applies. See Defense Bonus (Exploits, p. 47)."

Defense Bonus is useless without a shield. The reason for applying the enchantment to your armor and not on the shield is because it would then work with any shield you wield. It is useful on the shield since that means you don't have to wear the full suit of armor to benefit from the enchantment, and since the enchantment is only beneficial if you are using a shield it makes sense. Applying the enchantment to both is ideal if you got the money to spend, it means, as long as you have a shield, that you will always benefit from it.

That's not how I interpret it. To me, the first line is saying that the Deflect DB is cumulative with (i.e., "adds to") the DB of a shield. The description of Defense Bonus on p.47 of Exploits seems to confirms this:

"Magic can provide a DB, too. Only the best magical DB applies – such bonuses don’t “stack.” But a fighter can claim a shield’s basic, nonmagical DB as well."

The can claim a shield's DB, to me, means he doesn't have to, therefore a shield isn't needed to receive the magical bonus.

As to why Deflect is such a better deal that Defending Weapon, I have no idea.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by zoncxs

Defense Bonus is useless without a shield.

Well, DB would still add to Dodge and Parry, just you can't block without a shield. For those who want to (say) use two-handed weapons, DB +2 on your armor is a quick +2 to Dodge and Parry. If you then pick up a medium shield (mundane, or up to +2 DB magical), you still get the +2 from the shield, and the +2 from other sources, making a total of +4.

[zoncxs]

To reiterate what I already posted, I realized I was thinking of DB in the same vain as DB on a shield (as in it needed a shield to be useful). I didn't think of it in terms of an overall advantage, which is what it is (thus not requiring a shield).