Everyday Magic; Curse, Bless, Oath, Prayer

[onetrikpony]

I want a setting element where 'gods' are real and every character can participate.

What I'm thinking of is a set of mechanics where superstition; cursing or blessing someone, making a warding sign, in the off-handed way most cultures do has a small but actual effect. Similarly breaking an oath; "I swear on my health..." has some real repercussion.

I'm certain this has been written already, probably in a Pyramid issue (that I probably allready own). Does anyone have a reference?

In case I'm actually inventing this particular wheel; I'm thinking that casting a curse or blessing is a spell like ability available to all sentient characters that will cause the target to;
A) get a +1 bonus (Blessing) or -1 Penalty (curse) to the next roll they make.
B) the next test the target makes is rolled twice; take the higher result for a blessing, take the lower result for a curse.
Not sure which option would be better.

It could be that casting the curse or blessing requires a skill roll of some type, Religious Ritual, Theology, Occultism... (Personally leaning to Occultism)

Anywho; Thoughts? If this hasn't already been done how would you do it?

[Gef]

Hi 1TP, this old post gets near what you're asking: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=7721

[onetrikpony]

Originally Posted by Gef

Hi 1TP, this old post gets near what you're asking: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=7721

There's actually a lot going on there.

This is probably going to satisfy another idea I've had for sacred/power languages, (I thought the old Monty Cook D&D dark speech was a good concept) and this probably ports that to GURPS faithfully.

I'll get back to this and let you know my thought FWIW.

Thanks

[Gef]

Been thining more about this. What you're talking about is a campaign feature. In other words, a warding sign is a thing that exists and has demonstrable effect, simple enough that it wouldn't require a special skill all its own or a special trait to make it work. You just have to know it.

The skill of knowing such things is Occultism, so you're basically postulating a setting in which Occultism is an Everyman skill, like Computer Operation is an Everyman skill in a setting with smartphones.

That doesn't quite cut it, though. If somebody makes his Occultism roll today, proving he knows the warding sign, why make him roll tomorrow? Well, he could fumble, but even an ordinary person probably won't, so the warding sign probably counts as "routine circumstances" good for a +4 bonus. There, failure is unlikely.

Now, what about poisoning a person by pouring the poison in his footpriint? If that's too easy, the earth is depopulated, so instead of +4, it takes -10 or worse, but could be improved as a technique.

So...

Essentially you make a "spell list" of these spells that anyone can use, set them all to default off of Occultism, with some of them being hard enough that you'd need real expertise in that skill, or to specialize by raising the technique. Keep the list short and finite. Power level is arbitrary. Why not have something that can do a lot of damage fast at long range? It's no more unbalancing than a rifle. It's just a feature of the campaign, but there will be a social response, like making sure every kid learns the warding sign.

I thought of Elder Tongues because you mentioned Blessing/Cursing, and my Elder Tongues have a Luck-like effect. I've had a lot of experience running a campaign that featured them, and they don't break anything. You may be thinking of something that offers more bang for the point, but there may be enough wiggle room.

PS: My write-up of Elder Tongues has evolved slightly. For one thing, I linked them to rune magic, and I wanted every Elder Tongue to benefit at least one Subject and Verb, so for Wyrmtongue I replaced Earth with Move. This with Accented you could have Move and Air, or Move and Water, and then get +1 to the runes for those things and be a pretty good ship's wizard. Move can grant a Luck-like bonus to a lot of things adventurers do, from riding a horse to swinging a sword, so 2 points for Broken Wyrmtongue is the go-to in my Griffin Rider campaign, plus the carrying effect means that riders can communicate simple concepts over wind noise. Black Speech is fun for a bad guy because the inky black cloud emerging from the speaker's mouth is the actual mechanical effect that makes his attack Deceptive, and the re-roll means that he's pretty likely to succeed even if he accepts the max skill reduction to penalize his opponent's defense. And that's kind of the point, PC hero gets re-roll from Wyrmtongue, bad guy gets re-roll from his own Elder Tongue of choice, that's why nothing breaks. So to carry the concept to your everyday magic, what matters isn't how powerful it is in absolute terms but rather that it's not too powerful in relative terms, meaning that the counter is equally common.

[Michele]

The shortest answer is GURPS Powers: Divine Favor.

[Stormcrow]

As said elsewhere, what you describe would be features of the setting, not skills or abilities of specific characters.

Originally Posted by onetrikpony

What I'm thinking of is a set of mechanics where superstition; cursing or blessing someone, making a warding sign, in the off-handed way most cultures do has a small but actual effect.

Decide what the effect is, then anytime anyone makes the gesture, they get it. No "casting" involved beyond knowing a simple gesture. Maybe anyone who makes the gesture can cause a -1 penalty against any action taken against them by the entity they're warding against. Whatever the effect is, it automatically happens when you make the gesture.

Similarly breaking an oath; "I swear on my health..." has some real repercussion.

Anyone who makes an oath automatically receives a Vow with the stated repercussion. You might want to limit the level of the Vow that can take effect. If I say "I swear on my life that I will not try to deceive you," then I have just reduced my character-point total by 10 points, because I have acquired a new Major Vow, and if I ever break that Vow, the Vow goes away, and I probably acquire some new Enemy or other reason my life is now in jeopardy.

In case I'm actually inventing this particular wheel; I'm thinking that casting a curse or blessing is a spell like ability available to all sentient characters that will cause the target to;
A) get a +1 bonus (Blessing) or -1 Penalty (curse) to the next roll they make.
B) the next test the target makes is rolled twice; take the higher result for a blessing, take the lower result for a curse.
Not sure which option would be better.

Whichever you like. As a feature of the setting, everyone can do it, so it doesn't impact how you create characters.

It could be that casting the curse or blessing requires a skill roll of some type, Religious Ritual, Theology, Occultism... (Personally leaning to Occultism)

Then it wouldn't be something that everyone can just do. Not everyone could just make a gesture and do it. Not everyone swearing an oath will be bound by it. This is an entirely different proposition.

[Tyneras]

GURPS Magic: The Least of Spells seems like it's up your alley. Least Spells are designed as IQ/Average skills with minimal or no requirements. The list of spells in the book is fairly short, but they give you a good idea of how to make new ones.

This thread has a lot of new ones brainstormed by the forum.
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=169744

[onetrikpony]

Originally Posted by Michele

The shortest answer is GURPS Powers: Divine Favor.

Are you referring to Divine Power modifier on Powers p. 26?

Thanks for all the input. I like Gef's idea of occultism as an 'everyman skill' but also agree with Stormcrow that it can't be a skill if it's going to be a ubiquitous aspect of the setting. I'll need to think about that.

I have a lot to consider, especially "Least of spells" brought to my attention.

I'm thinking of Blessing, Cursing, Wards against evil/misfortune as something of a karmic effect relating to social interaction. Not every curse or blessing convinces the gods to intercede in a person's fate but sincere good will or malice will have an effect. This could be simulated by requiring skill rolls but I think it might work better with the introduction of a mechanic that would require a little bit of book keeping on a character sheet.

I'll read some more and get back to this.

thanks

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by onetrikpony

Not every curse or blessing convinces the gods to intercede in a person's fate but sincere good will or malice will have an effect.

In this case, you should just make simple reaction rolls for the gods, with bonuses or penalties depending on things like how sincere the good will or malice is and how miraculous the effect you're asking for. The reaction result tells you how effective the invocation is.

[Gef]

Originally Posted by onetrikpony

Are you referring to Divine Power modifier on Powers p. 26?

I think the reference is to GURPS Powers: Divine Favor, one of the "worked example" PDFs for powers. The idea is, start with Patron (God), and then buy specific prayers as Alternate Abilities. For instance, you may have a low chance, 6 or less, to get God's attention for a random miracle, but when you activate Healing as an Alternate Ability, you can use that reliably. I'm not sure it aligns well with your idea.