Handing off Powers Stolen with Neutralize

oneofmanynameless · 03-02-2021, 09:58 AM

If you wanted to make a character who could hand off the powers or abilities he stole with his Neutralize (power theft) what modifiers would you apply to neutralize to grant that effect? Affects Others?

Obviously this is an enormously dangerous effect to exist in game but I'm still curious how to do it.

Not another shrubbery · 03-02-2021, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

If you wanted to make a character who could hand off the powers or abilities he stole with his Neutralize (power theft) what modifiers would you apply to neutralize to grant that effect? Affects Others?

Obviously this is an enormously dangerous effect to exist in game but I'm still curious how to do it.

So, you can keep the stolen power (as with regular Power Theft) OR transfer that power to another character? Does the intended recipient need to be aware and willing? Can you xfer the power anytime before the Neutralize expires, or must you choose immediately when the attack succeeds?

oneofmanynameless · 03-02-2021, 01:38 PM

well the specific use case I'm thinking of is like... you can steal someone's power to create a little orb of power that contains that power (and lasts as long as the neutralize normally lasts). You can absorb that orb to gain the stolen power, or hand it off to someone else to gain the powers. You could probably force it on someone too, if they weren't willing, but that would require slamming the orb into their body which is definitely an attack. And in theory a fast actin victim of your neutralize could potentially disarm you to snatch the orb back and there by get the power themselves.

this definitely seems like some gadget limitations on the stealable front. Applied to the power theft modifier rather than the base effect?

Although I'm also wondering about how to handle it more generally for future scenarios I might want to model it. Like being able to transplant a power but only if you can touch both targets at the time of the transplant.

kirbwarrior · 03-02-2021, 02:49 PM

I feel like Affects Others for instantly passing it to someone else and another +50% to turn the Affects Others into a gadget (similar to Triggered Delay), which could just be made into a new +100% enhancement if you wanted. For 'attacking' others with it you'd add Ranged.

Note that all of those are specifically for the 'orb'. If your power was creating an orb that steals the powers of the first person who touches it, then whoever holds the orb has the powers, that's probably two versions of Triggered Delay.

Mind, that all seems a little expensive to me and I'm not sure what's dangerous about being able to steal one person's powers, then letting someone else use them. I guess with Permanent (Until the target gets the orb back) +150% it could be pretty awesome, but that sounds pretty expensive.

Aldric · 03-02-2021, 03:32 PM

I seem to recall that Affects Others lets you extend your powers to others, and not enable them to do something (I think the example is healing, but neutralize works the same)
On the other hand, if you have a gadget that lets you neutralize other people powers, that can be stolen, and can work for the thief, you're not really too far away from what you wanted to do.
It stands to reason that, with the Neutralize granted by a gadget, the powers stolen would also follow the gadget if someone else got it.

Not another shrubbery · 03-02-2021, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

well the specific use case I'm thinking of is like... you can steal someone's power to create a little orb of power that contains that power (and lasts as long as the neutralize normally lasts). You can absorb that orb to gain the stolen power, or hand it off to someone else to gain the powers. You could probably force it on someone too, if they weren't willing, but that would require slamming the orb into their body which is definitely an attack. And in theory a fast actin victim of your neutralize could potentially disarm you to snatch the orb back and there by get the power themselves.

this definitely seems like some gadget limitations on the stealable front. Applied to the power theft modifier rather than the base effect?

Although I'm also wondering about how to handle it more generally for future scenarios I might want to model it. Like being able to transplant a power but only if you can touch both targets at the time of the transplant.

The orb build you are envisioning isn't as interesting to me as a general case one that could be tweaked, but I think you're right that it's something like Can Be Stolen, but obviously a lesser version if only that use of the power is all that can taken, not the full ability.

Anyway, if I were making such a custom enhancement, I would assume the base version would be [Can Keep Power OR Transfer it to a Willing Target; Can Transfer Power Anytime Before the Duration Expires]. With those stipulations, I would figure this to be about equal to a Cosmic enhancer. Even though it is changing the way the ability works, it seems to me to be more on the level of an Increased Utility enhancement rather than a Cheating one. The inherent limitation of Power Theft (Can't use it again until the borrowed powers return to the owner) should help limit abuse.

oneofmanynameless · 03-02-2021, 08:28 PM

So it sounds like, between the delay comparison and the affects others comparison, that a +50% cosmic is sufficient for the hand off component?

What do people think about using modifiers modifying modifiers to apply gadget limitations to that cosmic enhancement? (or perhaps to it and the power theft modifier?)

Say, it isn't that bad! · 03-02-2021, 08:43 PM

If you're asking about permanent power theft, I would perhaps argue for another +300% on top of the +200% for power theft.

It doesn't seem like you are, but I figured it might be helpful to raise the question.

oneofmanynameless · 03-02-2021, 11:22 PM

No. I'm not. I'd assume permanent power theft would require the +300% permanent modifier in addition to the power theft modifier (or the +150% permanent with dispelling condition modifier).

Plane · 03-03-2021, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

If you wanted to make a character who could hand off the powers or abilities he stole with his Neutralize (power theft) what modifiers would you apply to neutralize to grant that effect? Affects Others?

Seems fair, AO shouldn't give the actual attack to others (it's intended for non-attacks) but the actual benefits resulting from the attack succeeding being transferred/shared seems like a decent use.

In which case maybe AO could be applied to Leech to let others get the HP you steal instead of yourself?

Maybe consider giving a baseline 10-second duration (or buy it with Persistent) which has to be extended though.

03-02-2021, 09:58 AM	#1
oneofmanynameless Join Date: May 2012 Location: New Hampshire, USA	Handing off Powers Stolen with Neutralize If you wanted to make a character who could hand off the powers or abilities he stole with his Neutralize (power theft) what modifiers would you apply to neutralize to grant that effect? Affects Others? Obviously this is an enormously dangerous effect to exist in game but I'm still curious how to do it.

03-02-2021, 01:38 PM	#3
oneofmanynameless Join Date: May 2012 Location: New Hampshire, USA	Re: Handing off Powers Stolen with Neutralize well the specific use case I'm thinking of is like... you can steal someone's power to create a little orb of power that contains that power (and lasts as long as the neutralize normally lasts). You can absorb that orb to gain the stolen power, or hand it off to someone else to gain the powers. You could probably force it on someone too, if they weren't willing, but that would require slamming the orb into their body which is definitely an attack. And in theory a fast actin victim of your neutralize could potentially disarm you to snatch the orb back and there by get the power themselves. this definitely seems like some gadget limitations on the stealable front. Applied to the power theft modifier rather than the base effect? Although I'm also wondering about how to handle it more generally for future scenarios I might want to model it. Like being able to transplant a power but only if you can touch both targets at the time of the transplant.

03-02-2021, 03:32 PM	#5
Aldric Join Date: Nov 2015	Re: Handing off Powers Stolen with Neutralize I seem to recall that Affects Others lets you extend your powers to others, and not enable them to do something (I think the example is healing, but neutralize works the same) On the other hand, if you have a gadget that lets you neutralize other people powers, that can be stolen, and can work for the thief, you're not really too far away from what you wanted to do. It stands to reason that, with the Neutralize granted by a gadget, the powers stolen would also follow the gadget if someone else got it.

03-02-2021, 08:28 PM	#7
oneofmanynameless Join Date: May 2012 Location: New Hampshire, USA	Re: Handing off Powers Stolen with Neutralize So it sounds like, between the delay comparison and the affects others comparison, that a +50% cosmic is sufficient for the hand off component? What do people think about using modifiers modifying modifiers to apply gadget limitations to that cosmic enhancement? (or perhaps to it and the power theft modifier?)

03-02-2021, 08:43 PM	#8
Say, it isn't that bad! Join Date: Dec 2013	Re: Handing off Powers Stolen with Neutralize If you're asking about permanent power theft, I would perhaps argue for another +300% on top of the +200% for power theft. It doesn't seem like you are, but I figured it might be helpful to raise the question. __________________ In which I post about a TL9-10 solar system http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=169674 If you don't know why I said something, please ask. Assumptions are the death of courtesy. Disappointed in the behaviour I have too-often encountered here.

03-02-2021, 11:22 PM	#9
oneofmanynameless Join Date: May 2012 Location: New Hampshire, USA	Re: Handing off Powers Stolen with Neutralize No. I'm not. I'd assume permanent power theft would require the +300% permanent modifier in addition to the power theft modifier (or the +150% permanent with dispelling condition modifier).