Replacing FP costs to cast spells

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Whitewings

Magery 3 and IQ 15 mean that 1 CP in a spell equals skill 15, enough to avoid HP cost. .

Skill-16 for Hard Spells (which is most of them) and spells that cost only 1 pt of energy are relatively rare. Some of them that can cost that little only do it by providing the minimal effect for 1 pt.

What would be the cost for this Magery? This version is a _lot_ less useful than the standard. I think you may have gone straitght to the -80%.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Giving plasma does not require any special advantages and/or special training (unlike spells). If the average person had to spend three years to train to give blood, they would have to pay $600 a session to get anyone to 'give' plasma. Anyway, plasma is not even 1 HP of injury, as red blood cells, white blood cells, and platelet are returned to the body.

Why would we assume mages need three years of training to learn magic? The 100/200/400/800 hours are just guidelines for characters essentially using downtime for learning. Indeed, from what I understand, Magic typically suggests mages (particularly enchanters) are paid far less than they "should" be given their skill levels (having skill 15 in multiple enchantment spells I think allows you to manage Average income, while you only need skill 12 in Carpentry to get around the same wage), which in turn implies magic is likely something that one learns much faster than normal skills.

That aside, magic that has to be fueled by HP is simply something that you can use less frequently than magic that can be fueled by FP. There will still be demand for magic, so people will still learn and use it. Fewer people, perhaps, but far from none - particularly as, in such a setting, a mage can likely charge more for his or her services than one in a more typical setting.

[AlexanderHowl]

I really do not see people learning magic under that system unless they are masochists of the highest level. Do not get me wrong, I am not objecting to replacing FP costs, I am not a fan of FP costs myself, I just think that a magical system that depends solely on personal HP will only be a curiosity. There would likely be only a handful of magicians within the average nation, and they would likely have issues finding willing students.

Of course, it could be an option to allow nonmages to use magic outside of high and very high mana areas and for mages to use magic in no mana areas without any penalty. Instead of losing FP due to channeling ambient mana, the character would lose HP to create and channel personal mana. In that case, it would provide an interesting option for magicians.

[talonthehand]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

I really do not see people learning magic under that system unless they are masochists of the highest level. Do not get me wrong, I am not objecting to replacing FP costs, I am not a fan of FP costs myself, I just think that a magical system that depends solely on personal HP will only be a curiosity. There would likely be only a handful of magicians within the average nation, and they would likely have issues finding willing students.

Of course, it could be an option to allow nonmages to use magic outside of high and very high mana areas and for mages to use magic in no mana areas without any penalty. Instead of losing FP due to channeling ambient mana, the character would lose HP to create and channel personal mana. In that case, it would provide an interesting option for magicians.

You're coming at it from the wrong end. The OP wasn't asking "will this system work", but "assuming this system does work, what would the consequences be".

You can come up with any reasoning you want for how the mages are able to cast spells - maybe aliens landed one night and straight up implanted them in their minds. It doesn't matter - we're just exploring consequences.

Steal Vitality is the spell I was thinking of the other day - using this the mage can cast with impunity as long as they have either loyal subjects waiting to take the hurt from them (apprentice system, maybe the mage is worshipped as a god and these are fanatics, maybe it's college students paying off loans), otherwise the mages would need to have captives to restore their HP.

If you're allowing new spells to be developed for the setting, you might have someone come up with a spell that allows these to be cast on livestock or other non-sapient subjects to get a literal sacrificial lamb feel to it, it would give mages a chance to not be so, yknow, evil.

You could also create a Secret Meta-College Spell that would let you skip the middle-man and drain the HP of other people around you while casting spells, or another that lets you drain the HP of many people at once rather than just one. Kind of reminds me of how mages work in Dark Sun - it's absolutely something that would create a dead zone.

[AlexanderHowl]

I believe that I have been sharing what I think would be consequences, very few people would practice magic and those who did practice magic would be dedicated masochists. Steal Vitality is temporary, any HP stolen fades, so it would only be illusionary power. Now, mages with Leech would likely have no major issues, but that is more vampire mages that human mages.

[talonthehand]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

I believe that I have been sharing what I think would be consequences, very few people would practice magic and those who did practice magic would be dedicated masochists. Steal Vitality is temporary, any HP stolen fades, so it would only be illusionary power. Now, mages with Leech would likely have no major issues, but that is more vampire mages that human mages.

I'm looking over Steal Vitality, and I can't find anything there that says it's temporary. It says the spell stops when the caster's HP is full, when the caster decides to stop, or when the subject dies, but not that the HP leaves the caster - just that they're no longer draining any more. Is there an errata or FAQ that I missed on it?

[AlexanderHowl]

Sorry, I think that I got it confused with Lend Vitality. Anyway, it only works on wlling/helpless sapient targets, which greatly limits its utility.

[Whitewings]

Originally Posted by talonthehand

You're coming at it from the wrong end. The OP wasn't asking "will this system work", but "assuming this system does work, what would the consequences be".

And one consequence I spotted immediately was that magicians will be much scarcer than in most settings.

[Rupert]

To make magic attractive to at least some people in such a setting, one might want to make the HP lost count for more than a single FP each (but all the energy must be used at once, in a single spell), but keep the cost reduction from high skill at its standard amount.

This would mean that highly skilled casters (Skill-15, 20, etc.) would still cast low-energy spells for simple utility (and doing so with a range of would be a sign of skill and probably status). However, most casters would only cast when it really mattered, but because they'd have a fair bit of energy for even a 1HP cost, their spells would be quite impactful. Most mages wouldn't cast often, nor would they cast many spells when they cast at all, but when they did cast, you'd better take notice.

Add in being able to pump effective skill with energy, as you can with ceremonial casting, and maybe being able to sacrifice things and use their power, and mages become really frightening and disturbing.

[dcarson]

Powerful people will have court mages who most of the time are highly intelligent staff. When needed they can cast magic. The ones I see being used most are long range communications, information gathering, and healing.